Someone said something about how Doom's potential for a bigger universe treatment like Halo and Warhammer and i feel like making a thread about the "Doomverse" with a bunch of random thoughts and rambling.
I feel like the best take to make on "Doom lore" is not so much "story doesn't matter/doesnt' belong" but more "it's not really how a Doom fan would actually do it".
The thing with the Carmack quote is that, besides how he looks at it nowadays, it's also because it feels like judging the games' setting/presentation from an outside source and not what's in the actual games and the manuals, specially with that one DYKG so it feels too easy.
I think in a way, Doom always had a unique enough aesthetic or presentation that made people discuss "what is Doom" and that, along with mods and fanart.
Feels like an example of Doom's staying power, as if the "expanded Doom universe" was what people made it out to be.
Even simply referring to the nameless MC as Doomguy is an example.
Doom's fanbade sort of "explored" the setting/aesthetic for years that i think someone making a bloated mod with uncredited Realm667 assets is more invested in "the Doomverse" than lore Youtubers.
Specially because there's a lot within Doom fans' relationship with the series: Source ports, mods, wikis, documentation, even accidental revisionism and associating the games with rumors or memes.
May not be comparable with Touhou fans in lots of ways.
In a way, the current Doom lore seems to be a case of modern pop culture and nerd scenes, which explains other franchises having additional material and such.
Like the cancelled Die Hard prequel, something to sell you the idea of "investment".
The idea of "Investing more" in a series whose fanbase already did as much as possible, with a feature that alters the series' identity in some ways.
The fact that previous games have their own stories and styles examplifies this.
Maybe making some spin offs as reboots/comic book type reiterations of the series facilitates milking and a potentially bad game alienating the identity even more.
But i feel like Doom occasionally changing skin is more fitting than one definitive "universe" when the series' origin might as well be an accidental aesthetic and silly premise carried by outsiders as its form of legacy when it's not other things like the FPS genre and technology.
Plus i don't even think most of the OG id guys even agree on what Doom is, besides Tom Hall having most of his ideas canned.
And even others in the 90's had varying ideas, like Gabe Newell saying Doom scared him a bit and influence on Half Life 1's story.
Even the multiverse connecting with Wolfenstein and Quake relies on specific/obscure materials/games/easter eggs that still clash in a way or another.
You had to know or even play the phone RPG games to know about BJ and Doomguy being related but nowadays that easily arrives in second hand/spread info, even if someone misinterpretates it slightly.
It'd be mush easier if id admitted that these games have their own universe seperated from OG Doom from the fact they're not obsessed with some ugly wall texture as some guy in 2007.
With Wolfenstein, the TNO timeline is seperate from classic/3D Wolfenstein, so it's easier to forgive BJ not having the same orange haired appearance.
Doomguy in Eternal doesn't even look closer to his classic mugshot than his Quake Champs model.
They may reference some popular memes like "rip and tear" and do Daisy cameos, but there's still areas that they haven't reached yet.
Maybe the fact that Doom fans did so much with the series means it's "too late" to make a more fitting universe.
Maybe i'm just spoiled by something like Samsara and MetaDoom, i dunno.
But this is why i'm glad Decino, Doomkid, MarphyBlack ect exist to show us interesting facts and correct stuff even.
The new games even have some ideas that feel like they could have been executed differently.
Some people reacted to TAG2 with points i already had since 2016's lore and art direction, so that would have to happen some day.
It's also because Doom fans, both old and new, really want Doom to be seen as "the most epic gaming franchise", specially when people compare or put Doom next to Halo, Warhammer, Berserk, Shin Megami Tensei and so on.
To say Doom is either cooler or on a similar level.
In a way, it feels like Doom fans were jealous that Master Chief was seen as the "FPS greenman" over Doomguy, which reminds me of Death Battle, a couple of chan memes and this crack theory if that portion of the fanbase influence 2016 more than the Doom comic.
Whether you see it as misguided fanservice or a marketing gimmick like Thor freezing a QTE bit in PS4 Avengers, the Doom Slayer has its own appeal, even if the power fantasy factor may turn down the comparisons to Berserk's Guts when Doomguy was known for being some buff dude whose face bled and had broken armor in the OG cover.
In a way, you can't tell if Doom actually is universally liked or "is supposed to be silly".
It's a series that everyone agrees is "fucking epic, the one Western series i like and should be in Smash".
But at the same time, it's also a series that everyone knows was never that serious, so in a way, it can make you wonder if Doom can still be seen as "unironically cool" or if the games could've been "more epic".
With discussion around Demon Souls' remake, people actually point out the trends and inspirations in why BluePoint's version looks ass but i barely see that with people discussing.
But Doom's art discussion is generic takes that barely analyze the actual art style.
Someone on /vr/ that said "it tries to be 90's when it was originally trying to be 80's" had more to say than "they took away 2016's true edge" or that Eternal brought back the exact art style and not just some classic influenced designs in a new style.
Maybe saying "this looks like DarkSiders" is cliche and in bad faith, but it also makes you wonder: What if Doom still has more to its visual identity that the new games aren't really taking advantage of?
The lore is also supposed to be done in a "makes you feel like a nerd" way but i'm pretty sure most Doom fans would aim to make Hell more abstract/surreal than what we got right now.
UAC creating demons you fight, the amount of chittin useage on designs, the mostly rocky aesthetic, Immora etc.
Like, how many people prefer this conceptualization of Doom's setting?
It's just so weird seeing posts like "DOOMGUY KILLED SATAN WITH ROCKETS" when Satan is just some dude in an armor.
An unintentional predecessor to Doomguy that doesn't even lead to a mirror match boss fight.
The Dark Lord in general is a mixbag of ideas that all went nowhere.
People made fun of JRPG's for "urrgh, twink kills God oh wow" but a series like SMT either has more direct references to religion and myths or designs that sell some sort of surrealism, idealization or symbolism.
Doom's modern demons have a unique case compared to your typical LOL/Blizz/Dota demons because it's a series with sci-fi elements, so the chittin anatomy and codex entries make them more "alien", while Doom 3 at least had some experimental designs, even if it came from a horror game that focused more on tech than actual game.
Surprised the Doom 2005 movie and 90's novels didn't motivate anyone make Doom even more religious reference based just to contrast the dumb "aliens all along" plots.
I feel like some people don't criticize certain parts of the story/art a lot because it either doesn't matter that much or because the games are just that good gameplay-wise.
Meanwhile, John Romero's SIGIL has art that wasn't made with the episode in mind and it looks differently from the aesthetic in modern Doom games.
In a way, feels like Romero reminding us of Doom being that 90's Satanic series and a hint of how each Doom games represents certain trends and periods behind these games.
A lot of the lore/style feels like if Doom was made today, it would have been a tribute to sci-fi and fantasy but not sure about any reference to Hell and demons.
Urdak could have been a surprise twist after pretending to be traditional Heaven.
A lot of "Doom is the most Christian game" is either obviously a joke or signs that Doom fans don't acknowledge any other series.
Doom is honestly safe compared to a lot of other franchises, to be honest.
It doesn't have to be Agony, of course.
In a way, it's funny seeing Loltaku types go "DOOM HAS BECOME SHIN MEGAMI TENSEI" when a year later, someone is like "meh it has that WoW art style".
But like, if most people were in fact interested in "the Doom universe", they'd be more wary of differences between old and new Doom, like the background of cybernetic demons or obscure shit like the Master Levels' lore for the Cabal series.
Might add more: The notion of "it's not how an average fan would write" doesn't extend to just classic modders caring too much about some sprites, it can also apply to new fans who don't really agree with Hayden being the Seraphim.
Thought of another take being "most people's problem with Doom Annihilation should be the fact they made Hell look boring and not remaster some wall textures and not the fact they replaced Doomguy with a female lead".
Also, speaking of Doom lore, id once made an official UAC website with lore tied to the Doom 3 novels and RPG, including the name of UAC's founder.
It's gone because of Bethesda's purchase of id and it used Flash for its presentation.
Might be in the internet archive somewhere.
To think i made a thread about Doom lore and didn't mention Marathon, which was made with lore from the start, despite also having a somewhat "abstract" presentation.
Though Doom has "fan expansion" with mods but there's some Marathon stuff with original content like this https://tain.totalcodex.net/items/show/the-mjolnir-project-tagset-1-7-map-pack-0-5
I also think adding new gameplay content and designs, regardless of story context/canon/aesthetic etc in a way is always expanding Doom, even if this is my brain being messed up by D4D/V/T/Meta/etc type of mods.
But you can even see this because of crossovers.

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Pub: 30 Jan 2022 16:18 UTC
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