Responce to this article - https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/18/i-feel-hurt-that-my-life-has-ended-up-here-the-women-who-are-involuntary-celibates
Imma break this down.
First of all, its The Guardian. For those OOTL: The Guardian is INCREDIBLY Left Leaning. So Feminism good, wokeness good, straight white dudes bad, you get the idea. Anyway, here we go:
‘I feel hurt that my life has ended up here’: The women who are involuntary celibates. What is it like to go without a partner when you long for one – and when even a fleeting sexual connection feels impossible?
I know. Sucks doesnt it. Dont worry, Men feel the same way. We dont get to write articles in national Newspapers though, we just have to bare it. Its fun, you'll be fine.
When a woman named Alana coined the term “incel” in the late 90s, she couldn’t have predicted the outcome. What started as a harmless website to connect lonely, “involuntary celibate” men and women has morphed into an underground online movement associated with male violence and extreme misogyny.
2 Sentences in, and we're already going with "Incels = Bad". To use an analogy here: All Muslims are bad because there are a few that are terrorists. Sounds stupid right? Yes, it does.
In 2014, Elliot Rodger stabbed and shot dead six people in California, blaming the “girls” who had spurned him and condemned him to “an existence of loneliness, rejection and unfulfilled desires”. There have since been numerous attacks by people who identify with incel culture, including Jack Davison, who killed five people in Plymouth this summer, before turning the gun on himself.
Just re-iterating what I said earlier, you gonna let the actions of a few deranged lunatics show you all of them? Okay. Good to know. I'll carry on this standard for the rest of my life, see how it works out.
In the darkest corners of the internet, incel groups have become a breeding ground for toxic male entitlement...
"Toxic Male Entitlement". Are you for real? Have a small glance at Tinder, and you'll see who the entitled sex is. Spoiler Alert: It aint men!
...putting them on hate crime watchlists across the UK.
Yeah, because the UK have NEVER ONCE overreacted to something. Remember "Curfew all men from 6pm"? Because I do...
But it is not just incel men who struggle to find sexual connections in the modern world. Some young women are turning to online “femcel” spaces to discuss the challenges they face as involuntary celibates.
So you're about to say "Femcels" are bad too right? Because, you know, equality and all that, right?
Right...?
Theirs is a non-violent resistance. Rather than blaming the opposite sex for their unhappiness, as some of their male counterparts do, femcels tend to believe their own “ugliness” is the root cause of their loneliness.
Keyword: SOME. SOME blaming of the opposite sex.
Men KNOW FOR A FACT that their ugliness is the root cause. Lets not get this twisted. Why do you think "Shower and go to the gym" is the go-to (useless) advice given.
Also, google "The Pig Woman Experiment", and get back to me.
Posting anonymously on platforms they have designed for themselves, they argue that they are invisible due to their abnormal appearance, and that our beauty-centric, misogynistic culture prevents them from being accepted.
That gosh darn Misogynistic Culture making everyone beauty-centric. Women who only want people with Quad 6s (6ft, 6inches, 6pack, 6figures) are suffering!
There is anger and open grappling with self-esteem, but no extreme hatred and no sense of entitlement within the community.
Yeah, someone didnt read the assignment properly. Maybe have another look at what you're promoting here.
Meanwhile, a far greater number of women would not describe themselves as femcels, but live unintentionally celibate lives. They share many of the femcels’ concerns.
Yeah. Same as men. I'd describe myself as one of these. Come shame me for it Guardian.
Caitlin, 39, doesn’t call herself a femcel, but she hasn’t had sex for almost eight years and doesn’t think she will find another sexual partner.
Someone hit the wall!
In all seriousness, 8 years. Like she MUST be actively avoiding this. Women control sex, and could have it at the drop of a hat. Red Pillers arent wrong to say that btw.
“I’m not conventionally attractive and I never get approached by men,” she says. “They don’t look at me. I’ve had therapy to try to address these issues, but dating feels like a barren wasteland. It’s worse as I get older, because I’ve missed that short window to marry and have a family.”
Again, The Pig Woman Experiment.
And yeah, you sound like most Feminists or CC Riders after the age of 30. Women never learn.
And also yeah, dating for Men is ALSO a barren wasteland. It aint all sunshine and roses over here you know...
She never tells people that she is celibate, because it makes her feel “abnormal” and inadequate.
Men feel like that. Difference is you could make an account on [Insert app/website of your choice] and have a ONS ready within a week...
“I feel a lot of anger and hurt that my life has ended up this way. I struggle to cope with the fact I may never find a partner. Society makes it harder because, after a certain age, people tend to pair off and form their own insular units and life gets lonely for single people.”
Yeah... We know. Nothing we dont know or havent heard before, or havent figured out yet. We just accept it.
Although Caitlin is not morally opposed to casual sex, it is not an experience that feels right for her. She has had two short-term relationships, which ended in heartbreak. There is a popular notion among incel communities – and even in wider society – that women are privileged because they can get sex at any time. Not only is that untrue, as many women will testify, but also, as Caitlin points out, not all sex is enjoyable.
Okay, so... It IS true. Like 100% of the time its true. I dont know if theres a study to PROVE it, but anecdotally from every guy out there, its true.
Also notice how she changes the "success" metric from "Having sex" to "Having ENJOYABLE sex". Subtle, but noticeable.
“Generally, men who aren’t in a relationship with you don’t make it a pleasurable experience,” she says. “The risk of rejection afterwards is high, which makes the sex even less enjoyable.
For most non-Chad Men out there, the same rings true. But nobody would tell you that, because you wouldnt go near them
As a woman, you want to be desired, not treated like a piece of meat.
[Insert some criticism of OnlyFans here.] Moving on...
Caitlin is aware that men also struggle with self-esteem issues linked to appearance, but believes the pressure is greater for women. “I’m not especially drawn to someone’s looks or height. I prefer to get to know someone and develop an attraction. But I feel that a man who didn’t find me attractive straight away would never learn to become attracted to me. I see lots of beautiful women dating men who aren’t good-looking, but rarely the other way around. Men have more ways to attract a partner than looks.”
You found the only Woman in the world who thinks like this, or shes lying. Which one guys. Have a guess.
Also, name the "other ways" Men can attract Women, without saying Money. I'd like to hear them please.
Appearance-based discrimination, termed “lookism” by femcel communities, is not the only reason that some women struggle to find a sexual partner. The risk of male violence has always been a concern, but the semi-anonymous nature of app-based dating has increased these fears for many women.
Fuck right off. Women are the primary beneficiaries of Tinder, and hookup culture. The 80/20 rule is in THEIR favour.
Listen, I wont deny that going to meet someone you dont know is terrifying, but the reverse is also true. A Woman could kill a Man on a date as well. Just saying...
Jane, 49, has been single for eight years and celibate for five. Although she would love to have a sex life, she is not prepared to compromise her principles by seeking a casual relationship with someone she has just met online.
Im sorry, whos entitled now? I wont make a compromise to be with someone sounds very entitled to me...
“I don’t want to invite someone I don’t know into my home, as you never know the risks.” She was once followed home by a man after their date. “I saw his car behind me and he said he was curious about where I lived. It made me extremely uncomfortable.”
Reasonable to feel like that, but not even close to Crazy Woman territory.
In addition to safety concerns, Jane says apps make it hard to find the type of connection she is looking for. While this is also true for men, she believes they tend to be more comfortable with the “fast-food”, casual-sex nature of online dating.
No, the ones that are HAVING Sex through Tinder are comfortable. The ones that ARENT comfortable, just aint in Tinder. What a concept...
Dishonesty is a common theme; she says it is impossible to build trust with a man who lies online. “Pictures will be 10 years old, or not an accurate representation of the person,” she says. “I look for men who take care of themselves physically, who are emotionally available, open and honest. You can’t see that on a profile.”
Wow. Just... Wow. I dont need to say anything here Fellas, just read that without laughing. You cant!
Since giving up on apps, Jane has stayed active through a walking group and has tried many other activities in the past few years. “I meet a lot of great women, but I never meet single men at classes or events. It’s hard to meet men who share your interests.”
Because the Men you WANT to meet settled down with a girl back when they were both in their 20s. What a concept!
This is also Mary’s experience. She is 53 and has been celibate for five years. “A lot of us feel that we’re not expressing ourselves sensually. It’s important to use the word ‘sensual’, not ‘sexual’. For women like me, it’s not about the act of sex. It’s about having the intimacy of emotions, as well as physical experiences.”
Yep. In fact if you go into r/ForeverAlone its a common theme. They dont want "sex", they want "Companionship".
But they get called Incels all the same, so.....
Like Jane, Mary has little interest in casual flings, but misses physical intimacy. She has even considered using escorts. It is a far cry from the close relationship she desires, but she would feel more comfortable with the idea of a no-strings sexual encounter if she knew exactly what it entailed. “I’m not really sure that safe, secure sex-worker services exist, but in a way it would be preferable to one-night stands. At least it would be a safe, secure transaction for which you and the man involved knew exactly what you were signing up, with no risk of violence, STIs or emotional hurt and confusion.”
Then go do that then. Like if its there, and it would solve your problems... Whats the hands thing that the black guy in TikTok does? That...
Mary also refuses to use dating apps, due to the number of married men seeking affairs and the difficulties she has in building connections.
Yeah because Women on Tinder really want connections outside of their Instas or OFs huh...
“The #MeToo movement was extremely important, but, at the same time, it created polarisation in society,” she says.
Yes. Yes it did.
She believes that, as men attempt to “relearn” the best ways to approach women so that they feel safe and comfortable, it can discourage some from making a connection at all. “It’s like nobody knows how to date any more and the fast-paced culture of apps means nobody has the patience to get to know someone.”
Stop calling Men creeps for shooting their shot. Stop calling the police on Men for talking to you. Is it any wonder that Men cant be bothered? You did this to yourself!
She says the men she encounters are almost always looking for someone younger than themselves.
Yep. I mean theres no lie here. You missed the boat huh? Shame...
According to Silva Neves, a sex and relationship psychotherapist with the UK Council of Psychotherapy, it is not uncommon for women to struggle to find a partner they find physically attractive, especially as they get older.
Yeah literally everyone could've told you that. You dont need to be a Sex and Relationship Psychotherapist.
“Society places a higher importance on women’s beauty,” he says. “We absorb and internalise this misogyny on every level and even women are more likely to criticise another woman’s body than a man’s. You often see women putting more effort into their appearance as they age because they have been taught it’s important in a way that men haven’t. But a lot of women complain that they struggle to be attracted to men, because they have let themselves go.”
First off, its a HE talking about Misogyny? Fuck, we're screwed.
A lot of women complain that they struggle to be attracted to men huh? Sounds pretty entitled if you ask me...
While many men still prioritise beauty, Neves says women’s other successes, such as education, wealth or a good career, may be deemed threatening
Its threatening, because Women MAKE IT threatening. Men do not care, they just want you to be happy. Women are making themselves and Men UNHAPPY by bashing Men who ARENT as successful as they are...
In a recent article in the Wall Street Journal, Richard Vedder, an economist and senior fellow at the Independent Institute, a libertarian US thinktank, said that men make up only 40% of the university student population in the US. Women are outperforming their male peers academically and delaying having families in pursuit of financial independence and a career. While this might be considered a positive step forward for society, it has left some men feeling adrift.
No shit Sherlock. When you continuously tell Men they HAVE to succeed, they're gonna be bummed as fuck when they dont.
This man got a degree for pointing out the obvious...
Elaine, 37, who has been celibate for five years, feels her successful career has played a role in her dating difficulties. “Men don’t like the fact I don’t cook or clean, even though I pay for someone to do both jobs,” she says. “The stereotype of male hunter-gatherer remains quite prevalent and at times I think they feel they don’t have a role.”
Theres a difference between "I cook 2 nights a week because I work a lot" and "I refused to cook at all and have no interest in trying". Who wants to guess which one she is?
Like other women, she is seeking an intellectual equal and is not interested in finding someone who will take care of her. “If you don’t fit in a Barbie box and do all the domestic duties, it can be quite upsetting for some men.”
See, you're basing your idea of a "Man" on what you dont know. Most guys dont care, they just want you putting in your share of work in the house.
Yvonne, 28, recognises the same traditional values in men her age. Despite numerous attempts at dating on and offline, she has never had a relationship and doesn’t engage in casual sex. “I don’t necessarily need to be with a man who has a degree, but I want to meet someone who is intellectually curious, with the same values,” she says.
This is code isnt it. We all know what this means, I dont need to type it out for anyone here.
"I think men can be intimidated by education and career success. In online dating especially, it always seems to come down to appearance only. I even know people who get professional pictures done as they know looks will be the first thing men see.
Yeah, it IS appearance only. ISNT IT, WOMEN. ISNT IT...
As a Black woman, this can be especially hard, as even Black men seem to prioritise light-skinned women.”
Fucking hell, she even played the Race Card. "Nooooo black boys have standards and I dont meet them, they're racist"...
Although she experiences loneliness, Yvonne is determined to stay positive. She has an active social life, enjoys a wide range of activities and subscribes to Nicola Slawson’s Single Supplement, a weekly newsletter that celebrates the joys of single life and supports people through the more challenging aspects.
I dont know what or who that is, but I cant imagine its helping much.
She also reads the work of the US author Shani Silver, who writes candidly about single life. “There are lots of women who are joining communities of other single women and sharing their experiences,” she says. “It’s certainly a much healthier approach than some of the toxic, woman-hating platforms that some men inhabit.”
You expect me to believe that these things ARENT Men Hating? You think I believe that for one second? GTFO man...
Femcels and women who struggle to find relationships are sometimes accused of misandry, especially by male incels.
Yeah, because thats what they do. Again, you didnt read the homework and thought you could pass the test.
Yvonne counters that any resentment women feel is more likely to be turned inwards. “The biggest difference between men and women seems to be that men feel entitled to sex and relationships, so it’s the fault of women when they can’t get it,” says Yvonne. “Women seem to internalise the issues and be more likely to blame themselves.”
If you'd have said "Men feel entitled to sex" I wouldve agreed with you, AND countered with "Women feel entitled to a relationship". However what world do you live in where BOTH are placed on men?
Neves argues that while misogyny and misandry are both unacceptable, they have very different roots. “Misogyny is an ideology which dictates that women should be seen as objects, without the same rights as men. Misandry is mostly a reaction to misogyny and informed by evidence. We shouldn’t put all men in the same bag, but at the same time it’s hard to criticise women who have had negative experiences.”
Hes actually right here to be fair, but I wanna make it a bit clearer. INFORMED BY EVIDENCE is key. We have EVIDENCE that Misandry exists.
Also yeah, its pretty easy to criticize women, regardless of their experience. You look at their actions, and judge them. Same as you would do if its a man. You brought up two Women Murderers earlier, and they got criticized for their actions, regardless of their experience. Make it make sense my dude.
Like Yvonne, he believes that women are more likely to devalue themselves, rather than others.
NO! No no no! No way has he just said this! Have you ever seen a Girl turn down a guy? Like ever? Some of them are so flippant its unreal. Devalue? Some stuff that gets said to men would sent Women to a psych ward!
Oh wait, IT FUCKING DID! Norah Vincent. Read her book!
It is one of the reasons he would like to move away from the term “femcel”: “When women label themselves as defective, it becomes part of who they are and how men define them, rather than something that can be overcome.”
Oh, so we're gonna stop calling men Incels right? Because it definces them and isnt something they can overcome? Right?
Didnt think so...
Although he doesn’t underestimate the trauma that some women experience due to bullying or poor self-esteem, he is hopeful that there will be healthier ways for women to fight back in future.
Only women get bullied and have low self esteem. Noted.
On Instagram, for example, which is known for perpetuating unrealistic beauty standards, a growing number of women are resisting these norms. Campaigners such as Lizzie Velasquez, who was bullied due to a congenital condition, and Katie Piper, who survived an acid attack, are building online communities for people who don’t fit beauty stereotypes, while others are raising positive awareness about skin conditions and different body types.
Yep, this is called the Body Positivity movement. They're fighting something that WOMEN SET UP! It also seems to have been hijacked by 400lb land-whales who need a crane to get out of bed, so its going well then :)
“I appreciate it can be incredibly difficult, but I would encourage women to surround themselves with these accounts,” he says. “You can have surgery or change your looks, but ultimately it shouldn’t be linked to your value as a person.”
But if youre a man who isnt 6ft youre not a real man. Gotcha.
It is something that Caitlin is exploring. “I’m trying to become more positive about finding alternatives to a sexual relationship,” she says. As well as channelling energy into building her self-esteem, she is trying new activities and communicating with other women. “Of course, not all male incels are involved in extremist online forums, but those that do are feeding off their hatred of women, viewing us as possessions or something to conquer,”
Women set THEMSELVES up as something to conquer. Hell, SOCIETY sets Women up as something to conquer. But we'll blame Men because its easier.
“Involuntary celibate women seem to be handling their anger and hurt in a more evolved way, throwing themselves into work, life and healthy communities where single life is celebrated. I hope it can inspire me to feel more confident in my own situation.”
No shes right here. Women are throwing themselves into work while Men are throwing themselves off bridges, because Women and society are deeming them a failure for being born ugly. As a recent Gus Fring Meme would say: "We arent the same"
Some names have been changed
WAIT HOLD UP! The whole article is hyping up Femcels and how they're not bad, BUT THEY DONT WANT TO BE IDENTIFIED AS ONE!?!?!?!!
Its insane. People are insane. I hate this. A bridge doesnt look so bad right about now!