This theory suggests that the true identity of the Roaring Knight is Noelle Holiday. This is an incredibly under-explored idea that's often treated as a joke. In my search for theories made on this idea, after digging through piles of posts downvoted to hell or discarded without thought I came across a couple videos making a case for Noelle knight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-pOlvieT-0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9MzyOh0eV4
While these videos bring some very interesting ideas on the table, they ultimately fail as they can't account for some key details I will address below. (I also completely disagree with the knight secretly also being ERAM and being involved with the MANTLE minigame)
Still, please do check out the videos linked above. I believe this document accounts for every problem and plot hole Noelle knight theory would have and it is my attempt at making the strongest case for it. Enjoy.

Noelle Knight's biggest problems


Before laying out the full story of how Noelle knight works, I will address the biggest problems the theory has to first prove that there's nothing that rules it out and it's completely plausible.

Looks

  • Her looks, we've seen her dark world form
    We see Noelle in a dark world on CH2, she looks nothing like the roaring knight, case closed.
    Unless... Noelle was to wear something, anything that would change her appearance. Do you really think a criminal would be sneaking around opening dark fountains in casual clothes? Or dolled up with her ice blue makeup and suit? The knight is obviously wearing something, maybe a black cloth or blanket when we see her in CH3, I think even something like a balaclava would do honestly. If a police uniform can turn into knight armor why would it be impossible for Noelle to simply change her clothes?
  • But the knight can shapeshift, fly and do all kinds of weird things!
    Aside from the shapeshifting clearly being a byproduct of the knight's blanket/cloth/cape/cloak/whatever moving around, the knight is the one making the rules in these dark worlds. The knight is more like a DMPC in a DnD game, they can simply choose to give themselves more power when the dark worlds were being made, more on how the dark worlds work later.
    Also, lightners's appearance somehow only becomes an issue when the knight is brought up, the fun gang has been in dozens of different costumes, Noelle's FIRST act that she does is wear a nurse costume.
  • Why doesn't Queen recognize Noelle?
    If Noelle made the CH2 dark world, Queen would recognize her right? Case closed.
    Except the Queen never met the knight personally and doesn't really know anything about her looks, despite this Queen INSTANTLY recognizes Noelle as the strongest lightner who MUST be her knight, more on chapter 2 later.

Awareness

  • She doesn't know about dark worlds
    This is addressed in its own chapter below.
  • She isn't evil or lying
    True! I personally don't think she speaks a single word of deceit throughout the whole game, minus some hyperbole when she talks with Susie, and some things she says when she's nervous or scared. That is to say, she is not deceitful and the information we get from her is reliable.

Logistics

  • How did she make the CH1 fountain?
    This is addressed in its own chapter below.
  • How did she make the CH2 fountain?
    This is addressed in its own chapter below.
  • She was at home crying between CH3-4 while the knight was in the shelter.
    This is addressed in its own chapter below. BUT don't skip this as it's extremely important, if you are going to get ONE thing from this theory, let it be the explanation of how this happened. Please do check the explanation down below.
  • She was at home when CH4 dark fountain was made.
    This is addressed in its own chapter below.

Weird Route

  • Why doesn't the knight's actions change on the weird route
    Because we've only now gained enough control on Noelle to actually make a change, if chapter 3,4 and 5 came out together I don't think we would be having any of these conversations.
    As of now, Carol's plan is going forward without issue on both routes, I expect that to change on CH5
  • Why isn't the knight stronger in the weird route
    Because we never had a real battle with her, I fully expect the knight to be stronger on the weird route.
    Not making a point here but man, imagine if the knight reveals herself by casting SnowGrave... Chills...

Aside from the problems that will be addressed in their own chapters, Noelle is logistically the ONLY person who could have opened every knight fountain. She was in the immediate vicinity of every fountain AND she could access all of them without raising suspicion. Carol could also do this as she is the mayor but it would be more suspicious than Noelle because what business does the Mayor have in all these places? People around would raise some eyebrows. The knight has to be someone that wouldn't call people's attention.
If only we had a knight candidate that could easily go into the supply closet, library computer lab and the church without raising suspicion, someone like a star student who's also in the church choir. Someone who has been in the immediate presence of every fountain made by the knight. Man, it would be the final nail in the coffin if this person straight up walked right up to us with the missing box of chalk after we went through CH1. Now wouldn't that be a slap in the face?
Except that literally does happen.
If you tell Noelle that Susie likes to eat chalk, on CH2 Noelle walks up to Kris and Susie to invite Susie to study with her and also gives her a lunch box full of chalk. Now I would scratch this off as a fun little scene but right after this happens Susie says:
"SHE HAD CHALK THE WHOLE TIME?"
Now, Noelle may very well have bought the chalk AFTER the events of CH1, this doesn't mean it was Noelle who took all the chalk in the first place, but the game going out of its way to put this idea in your face is no coincidence. Susie could have said ANYTHING else and you could laugh this scene off but this tells me there's something very deliberate here. I go into more detail about this below.

Narrative / Prophecy

  • If Noelle is the knight, the prophecy doesn't work
    The prophecy states that the knight will fight with the heroes, if the knight is one of the heroes she couldn't do that. Case closed.
    Except, she totally could, the prophecy is out of order so we don't know for sure, Noelle might not be one of the heroes, the prophecy could go as "And at last was the girl, the knight that makes with blackened knife shall duel with heroes strife by strife" this would specifically spell out that THE GIRL IS THE KNIGHT.
    However I think there's an even better explanation than all of that which is that the prophecy works with multiple different interpretations.
    We have the prophecy in Undertale as well and it comes true in both the pacifist and genocide endings, Gerson mentions how the Angel is supposed to bring freedom to monsters but some monsters interpret freedom as freedom from the mortal realm, as in, the Angel is an angel of death. The prophecy comes true no matter which path you choose.
    I think Noelle knight theory allowing for Noelle to fit into multiple roles in the prophecy is a major strength. Noelle could be the knight, could be the girl, could be one of the heroes, could be the Ange, fuck it even the cage if we do get our soul inside her at some point and all of those would work with different interpretations. Thinking through this again, I think this was fully intended and Noelle fitting the role of the knight was the missing piece to make the prophecy make sense from every perspective. Just like that shadow crystal line where Kris keeps shaking the prophecy but it doesn't change, that doesn't mean the future can't be changed, it means every interpretation fits.

Debunking Dess Knight

What the Theory Has Going For It

Dess knight theory isn't baseless, it's main problem is that it relies almost solely on speculation and symbolism, it has almost NO solid proof for it. This problem becomes even more massive when you consider the fact that pretty much everything that can be used to make a case for Dess can also be used to make a case for Noelle, this fact is often overlooked because everyone is so focused on Carol vs Dess for the knight. It's crazy to me how no one even CONSIDERS Noelle to be the knight

What caused Dess knight to be a plausible theory at all in the first place was Dess having unmissable buildup JUST before the knight reveal. We have the bubblegum machine secret room that seems to be about Dess, then the cutscene where we see Dess disappear when Tenna talks about it, then boom, the knight is in front of us and she has antlers and a bat.
The knight's weapon DOES look like a bat, but hey, when all you have is a bat everything looks like a ball.
The knight herself looks a lot like the corpse of a deer, this could imply things about Dess condition. Maybe she's dead, maybe she doesn't have her soul inside her, maybe she became a darkner, maybe she's posessed, maybe she has Kris's soul inside her, maybe she's corrupted, maybe she's stuck in the code and the shadow crystal armor she's wearing is like the game's code itself manifesting as the screen of our monitor or maybe- This is the first major problem with Dess knight theory.
Dess knight CAN NOT stand on its own AT ALL.
You need at least 5 other theories all based COMPLETELY on speculation to explain HOW Dess is the knight.
I am not joking even slightly when I say I looked everywhere for a good explanation from Dess knighters on HOW Dess ended up like this and 9 times out of 10 their answers is, and I kid you not:
Gaster.
I could go on a whole rant on this alone but I want to lay out the case for Dess knight first before dismantling it.

Okay, so far the knight resembles a spooky deer and has a bat, cool, what else.
The battle text mentions Kris having a headache, this is clearly a reference to us inspecting Dess's room and finding out that looking at the bat Dess hit Kris with makes their head hurt. I agree with this actually.
The battle text also has a lot of references to the MOTHER series and Dess is literally Ness!!
In MOTHER 1, the main character's mother's name is Carol.
In MOTHER 3, the KNIGHT is revealed to be the main character's brother in the end.
One of the knight's attacks is literally PK Starstorm, and is also Asriel's hyper goner from Undertale.
The Asriel connection is what initially sold me on the Dess knight theory, they clearly had a relationship and her moves referencing it makes perfect sense, HOWEVER.
The rainbow effects actually stem from us being right next to the dark fountain and if we are going to say the knight is related to Asriel because she does a "sucking in" attack we also have to do the same for the water cooler and Spamton.
There are holes in the knight's hands which is Gaster-y.
Dess is kinda related to stars, she's a rockstar, there are stars in her room and she's probably one of the two sisters in Undertale who wanted to see the real stars, there's also the shadow crystal line in the egg room in CH4 but it's actually a huge deal I will address later.
Another big point for Dess knight is the guitar sound that plays after a hand pushes Kris back when we try to go back in CH4.
In the MANTLE minigame there's a black monster who is actually a black deer until a variable named "toriel" is activated, this monster mimics the player's movement until we solve a puzzle and bring it to Kris to kill it. We see the knight mimic Kris's moves again and again, doing the flirty pointing, arms crossing, aura farming etc.
The theory also has an emotional hook: Dess is missing, her absence haunts the game, and revealing her as the knight would be shocking.

So far we do have a case for Dess being the knight.
Dess went missing, presumably due to a traumatic event most likely caused by Noelle and Kris.
Then something something happened and she became the knight! And she opens up the dark fountains by... sneaking around and um... hiding in closets and stuff... uh...
Okay, we do need to speculate on how she exactly became the knight, this is the part where the theory gets wild and everyone throws something at the wall to see what sticks.
The biggest problem is, we already heard Dess speak, reach out for help, in the game files and once through Spamton which is EXTREMELY important by the way and we will get to that.
If Dess is "stuck in the code" that means even if she was somehow the knight, she's not fully conscious.
Okay okay, let's just like, ignore all those problems and focus on what really matters, the stuff we have at hand, the knight stuff.
It makes perfect sense for Carol to work together with the haunted corpse of her daughter to open up dark fountains all over the place to... Look for her missing daughter?
Okay maybe Carol is looking for something else maybe she's just evil?
I kid you not, I've seen someone unironically say Carol is doing it for "fun"
Dess and Carol working together make no sense no matter what bullshit theory you come up with to explain how she's the knight in the first place.
When I was a Dess knighter I speculated that going into a dark world without a soul might turn you into a darkner, this works well with what we know so far and explains how Kris needs us, however we end up with more questions? How did Dess lose her soul? Did Kris give her body their own? How? How do we fit into this? Why would any of this happen in the first place?
I really like the idea of Kris's soul being inside the knight and if she IS Dess then it could be Kris's soul + her instincts without her true will acting as the knight, this could MAYBE explain her behavior but again, there's NO SOLID PROOF for any of this, and it's my best shot at making a grounded case.

If we ignore the 2 major problems we have so far those being that there's no way to explain HOW Dess became the knight and that there's no reason why Carol and her MISSING/DEAD daughter would work together like this, we only scratch the surface of the problems this theory has.
So far the only things pointing us to Dess knight seem to be the baseball bat and MOTHER references.
Before we continue let me make this clear. Deltarune is NOT MOTHER, there's no reason for it to be MOTHER, why would it be MOTHER? What do you even want out of this story? Don't piss me off dude.
And if Toby was going for an epic MOTHER reference, then ASRIEL WOULD BE THE KNIGHT.
Moving on.

The MANTLE minigame does not support Dess, it supports Noelle.

The MANTLE minigame is EXCLUSIVELY about the weird route. It only makes sense in that context. If the black monster was Dess, that would ruin the minigame's purpose
The sequence synchronizes Kris and the monster's movements because it is foreshadowing what the player does to Noelle in CH2, taking control of her, making her do things against her nature. The black deer is Noelle under the player's influence. Using MANTLE as Dess evidence requires ignoring what MANTLE is actually about.
And guess what killing the deer implies... There will be a whole section on the weird route below and I think it's the killing blow for Noelle knight theory.

Dess symbolism also works for Noelle.

All the "Dess symbolism", the stars, baseball bats and balls, the guitar imagery work just as well, and maybe even better, as Noelle symbolism. At first glance 1225 is LITERALLY DECEMBER HOLIDAY OMG!!
Guess what, it's also NOELLE HOLIDAY. Noelle is characterized by her search for Dess, her absence eats away at her, it's a core part of her character of course she's going to have Dess written all over her. Can you guess any characters that might have easy access to a bat? Why is it so hard to believe that Noelle is using Dess's bat as a weapon? If it indeed is a bat in the first place.
Can't forget, the lost girl motif is LITERALLY the freedom motif, and freedom is Noelle's central theme, this is made especially clear in CH2.
In fact, it's actually Noelle implanting the freedom motif into darkners, I will go into more detail about this below.
And to explain the shapeshifting and weird magic armor. I think it's Noelle wearing some sort of black cloak and a mask or maybe she straight up has a blanket over her. This would perfectly explain why the Knight can shapeshift, a cape fluttering all over the place especially in the dark doesn't have a consistent shape, all you can really make out is the antlers.

  • What about the shadow crystal?
    I believe shadow crystals either directly come from Noelle or Carol, I elaborate more on this below as the egg room line gives us important info

The theory requires Dess to be not fully conscious and then ignore what that means.

Every version of the Dess theory has to grapple with the fact that Dess is missing and almost certainly cannot be operating normally. So theorists posit she is a zombie, a corrupted vessel, a being controlled by Gaster or FRIEND or some bullshit, even if we eventually come up with a theory to explain what the knight actually is/how Dess became this whatever thing we have the big question: how does this... entity discreetly open Dark Fountains in the school supply closet, the library computer lab, and the church without a single person in Hometown noticing? How does a shambling deer corpse navigate community buildings during school hours? Dess theorists will look you dead in the eyes and point out logistical problems with Carol or Noelle knight, then explain that a literal corpse is sneaking around town undetected as if that sentence doesn't need defending. Actually scratch everything, this is a reference to Toby Fox's favorite game Metal Gear Solid, because we all know Toby could never come up with a character on his own so he literally took Solid Snake and combined him with Ness. Case closed, Dess knighters win again baby.

The theory relies ENTIRELY on speculation stacked on speculation.

Dess knight does not stand on its own. It requires you to first accept a Gaster-is-controlling-her framework or whatever nonsense you can come up with honestly, then accept a mechanism for how Dess exists in any interactable form, then accept a reason why she would be working with or against Carol, then accept an explanation for how she operates in the light world. None of these are provided by the game. They are invented wholesale to make the theory functional. When a theory needs that much external scaffolding before it can even BEGIN, that is the theory telling you it doesn't work. It's ad hoc on ad hoc it's like a logical fallacy checklist.

It contradicts the one thing the game is clear about: Dess is missing.

Dess being the Knight directly contradicts her narrative status. She is absent. Her absence is a major wound on the characters that the story keeps pressing on. Making her a secret villain that has been hiding in the shadows to OOOooh DESTROY THE WoOoOoOoRLD is... comical. Imagine how Noelle would feel about this, imagine what this would ACTUALLY do for the story.
Of course I don't think any Dess knighter would make the case that Dess is evil and doing this on her own but we already went over why her working with Carol or... fucking Gaster doesn't work either.

And here is the one that matters most: Dess being the knight DOESN'T MATTER.

The Noelle knight theory's biggest 2 strengths is that first, it gives the weird route a legitimate reason to try and second, it makes a compelling secret identity for the knight.

Assume for the sake of the argument that Dess IS the knight. Does that change any of your decisions you made so far in the game? Is there any other route you would take if you have this information?
Would Kris even try to hide this from you? In the scene where we get a choice to think about the knight, what if Kris was unable to divert our focus and let us see who's under the helmet?
Boom, it's Dess. Okay? So what exactly? Are we going to change our approach to dealing with the knight? No. Are we going to tell Noelle or Susie? Kris would literally prefer biting off their tongue before letting us do that. Dess being the knight makes for a fun "what if" but it has no real consequence for the story.
The same exact thing goes for Carol, Kris already knows that you know that they work with Carol, it's actually now in their best interest to have you and Susie think that the knight is Carol, why? So they can keep the attention off of Noelle.
This brings me to my first major evidence for Noelle knight.

Kris keeps misleading us

The key point that led me to this theory in the first place wasn't anything about Noelle but rather Kris, what they do and not do. I think this is fully intentional, Kris misleading you is Toby spelling it out for you, the truth is revealed by the liar's attempts at hiding it.
Kris is misleading us. Actively, consistently, intentionally. Especially when it comes to Noelle.

What Changes If We Know?

Start with the question that unlocks everything: what changes from the player's point of view if we know who the Knight is?

If the Knight is Carol, nothing changes. We learn the mastermind behind the knight was the knight herself, shocker. We nod. The story continues. Our actions remain the same.
If the Knight is Dess, it's kinda sad I guess? Maybe we speculate about Gaster. The story continues. Our actions remain the same.

If the Knight is Noelle... everything changes. The whole story turns on its head and most importantly, now WE have a weapon to use against fate. WE can go back to a previous save to influence and take control of Noelle.
We learn we can do this through the sword route, it's a whole tutorial on how to get the weird route, we know it's dangerous, we know it's going to hurt but if it pays off we can change everything.
Kris knows that we know things we shouldn't know. We know most people in town, we know metagame-y stuff, we know things from different timelines.
I don't think Kris can remember between saves and it's not clear how much they know about saving but they definitely know that we have the power to change fate.
BTW imagine how scary it is for us to constantly bring up Asriel, Kris is probably shitting their pants thinking of what will happen to him lmao.
Kris knows that if we find out Noelle is the knight we can and WILL ruin her life, they must not let us under any circumstance know the true identity of the knight.

How Kris Misleads Us

1. Steering Susie Toward Carol

I believe the story is deliberately progressing toward Susie suspecting Carol. This is not accidental. It's exactly what Kris wanted, and you think you're so smart for rejecting Carol knight in favor of Dess knight instead, lmao.
Every interaction, every bit of evidence that points at Carol's controlling behavior, every moment where Carol's secrecy is foregrounded, Kris is letting that narrative build. Kris makes NO attempts are hiding Carol's ties to the knight, they literally go "fuck it, better call boss" when Susie gets the guitar. If the knight's identity was so important Kris wouldn't risk revealing it to Susie.
Why can't Kris simply go up to Susie and ask for the guitar? Would Susie make a big deal out of that?
You would think Kris's plan was to stop Susie and the player from getting the code, but then why would they go chill and drink choccy milk while we wander around? Why is Kris maximizing the chances of us finding the code if they specifically don't want that happening?
Because the plan was making Carol look like the knight all along. Kris lets us take a good look all over the house, making sure we see the katana and all, then boom, Carol walks in and most people immediately assume she's the knight. Those who think they are smarter stick with Dess because of the symbolism or whatever. Either way Kris wins.
Susie isn't the sharpest cookie and doesn't make the connection between the knight and Carol YET but I fully expect Susie to make that silly face and say something like:
"Dude"
"DUDE"
"Noelle's mom... is like TOTALLY the knight dude."
"I mean just LOOK at her, the antlers, I wouldn't be surprised if she had a sword at home or something."
"Do you think... It really could be her?"
Kris wants Susie to think it's Carol. Kris wants us to think it's Carol. Because as long as we're looking at the wrong Holiday, Noelle is safe.
And all of this doesn't mean that Carol is a red herring either, the fact that we are being misled by KRIS is Toby SPELLING IT OUT in the narrative, you just have to look for the reason for Kris's actions, this is EXACTLY how you're supposed to handle an unreliable narrator, and the unreliable narrator makes sense only if Noelle is the knight.

2. Giving Noelle Plausible Deniability

When Kris has the opportunity to ask Noelle about the shelter, the options Kris gives her are carefully constructed BY Kris, specifically so that we don't get any important info from her. They allow Noelle to deflect without technically lying. Noelle gets nervous then immediately steers the conversation elsewhere, and avoid directly addressing what she knows. BECAUSE KRIS TOLD HER NOT TO TALK ABOUT IT, OF COURSE THEY DID. Even when they are alone. Kris gives her escape routes built into every question.

I personally believe Noelle never lies, it's just not in her character to lie, that's why Kris has to try so hard to cover for her. Kris stretches themselves so thin doing this that it defeats the whole purpose in the first place.

3. Intimidating Spamton

When Spamton starts talking about the knight, he suddenly freaks out and apologizes before yapping as usual. What caused that?
At first you chalk it up to knight's influence or maybe even "aura" but I think it was Kris that made him freak out. They probably gave Spamton the coldest, hardest death stare and made him stop talking about it. This makes sense because Spamton most likely does know that Noelle is the knight. It would be funny if this ended up being the reason he called her [HOCHI MAMA] because she's literally his mom, as in Noelle made her, by printing out all the spam emails and throwing them in the trash, she then probably chucked a shadow crystal in there, giving Spamton the freedom motif. By the way this is also why we get a single line from Dess in Spamton's dialogue, it's because he's made up of Noelle's inbox, she was looking for her and ended up getting a piece of her in Spamton, maybe just metaphorically or whatever I don't mean to imply that a piece of Dess is LITERALLY inside Spamton.

  • But wouldn't Spamton call out Noelle if he knew she's the knight?
    Why would he? In fact this could make Spamton's lines about the weird route and making [Hyperlink blocked] more interesting. Also, I could be wrong about Spamton knowing that Noelle is the knight, it's just a cool thought.

4. The "Think About Noelle" / "Think About the Knight" Scenes

In CH4 we get two separate "think of" scenes: one where Kris thinks about Noelle, and one where Kris thinks about the Knight. An anon brought up how they must happen at the same time, if the knight is in the dark world taking off her helmet while Noelle is thanking Kris, they can't be the same person. This is a good point.
What I think is going on here is this:
The scenes happen one after another, if you are on the weird route. The knight takes off her helmet, it's Noelle, she says "Thank you.". It's very poetic in my opinion.

  • But that means they DON'T happen at the same time
    My explanation for this is that Kris isn't LITERALLY tapping into a live security cam footage but rather the scenes have a narrative purpose and a few seconds delay doesn't really matter.
    BUT I don't even have to argue for that because, go check if you don't believe me but it takes 5 SECONDS for the Kris to think of the knight BUT it takes 10 seconds for them to think of Noelle. It's almost as if Toby fox WENT OUT OF HIS WAY TO FILL THIS GAP.
    AND I DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF THIS UNTIL ANON BROUGHT IT UP AS A REBUTTAL.
    I COULDN'T COME UP WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS IF I TRIED LMAO.
    Anon also misremembered Noelle's dialogue box as being a LW one, guess what it's a DW text box.
    Now I wouldn't use this as evidence for my case because we could just be getting a DW box because we're well, in a dark world, duh but if anon was right in their line of thinking that would confirm NOELLE IS IN A DARK WORLD IN THAT SCENE lmao.
    It makes PERFECT narrative sense for these two to be the same scene, Kris has EVERY REASON to split those up ESPECIALLY on a weird route to try and mislead us again.
  • Ermm but by your logic at this point in the weird route YOU would already KNOW Noelle is the knight
    Kris doesn't know that. For all they know, this is their last chance at getting you to abort the route.
  • Ermm but the weird route is not abortable at that point.
    You don't know that. Neither does Kris.
    If anything we would expect Kris's attempts at misleading us to get even more desperate as they are running out of options, this is also why I predict the story progressing to imply Carol knight more and more until the big reveal.

They happen at the same time. The scenes are presented as distinct, but the most straightforward reading is that they are the same moment,the knight takes off the helmet, and it's Noelle. The game splits them because Kris is trying to keep those two thoughts separate in our mind. It's not live security cam footage. The scenes are mainly narrative and narratively, they add up to one revelation Kris doesn't want us to piece together yet.

Adding this on later because I thought of it after writing this part, in the praying scene on CH4, if you choose to pray for Noelle, Kris "loosely" joins their hands together and prays for Rudy instead. This is again, Kris overcorrecting their behavior when it comes to the player looking into information on Noelle. You could say that they don't WANT to pray for Noelle but let's be real, who among the options need a prayer more than Noelle? The only other options are Susie and Asriel, choosing Asriel leads to Kris not even trying to pray as he definitely doesn't need a prayer. Susie makes sense but then she explicitly tells you that she doesn't need it, that of course Susie being Susie but again, this line is there for a reason. Susie specifically draws attention to the idea of us praying for someone in need? Who is that? Why does Kris go against us then?
This is my favorite thing about the Noelle knight theory, it recontextualizes everything and makes even small one liners like this make more sense, it's woven into every little interaction it's actually crazy.

Kris's behavior only makes sense if:

  1. Kris knows who the Knight is
  2. Kris knows we can influence that person
  3. Kris is terrified of what we'll do if we find out

No other Knight candidate explains Kris's actions. If it's Carol, why would Kris care if we know? If it's Dess, what leverage do we have? If it's anyone else, why the active cover-up especially around Noelle?

But if it's Noelle... someone they already know we can control, someone Kris cares about, someone whose path we could genuinely alter if we went back with the right knowledge, then every single thing Kris does makes perfect sense.

It's really poetic how this very defense revealed Noelle as the knight, honestly, it's simply... Kino.

But wait. We're only getting started, I hope you're nowhere near convinced yet because...

Noelle knight gives the Weird Route a legitimate reason to consider

This is the big one. This is the argument that for me, settles it. Because as the game stands right now, the weird route has a problem that everybody either ignores or brushes off.

Why would you do the weird route?

No, seriously. Sit with that question. Do you have any answer outside:

  • I'm bored
  • I'm curious
  • I'm EVIL >:)))))))

Maybe you're smart and you said something like "to change fate, to change the future" or something similar. Guess what, if Noelle isn't the knight, this is completely unreasonable? You're torturing Noelle... To save the world? How would that result in any good change unless... She was the knight, she was the key to everything.

What is your in-universe justification for doing the weird route?

Ralsei, the game's moral compass and perfect little cinnamon roll, the character whose entire function is to guide you, explicitly tells you that kindness is the path and that the outcome doesn't change. He tells you this directly. The game's designated good guy looks you dead in the eye and says "BE NICE (please)"

And the weird route involves systematically traumatizing Noelle. A character the game has spent two chapters making you care about. A character who is nervous, sweet, struggling under the weight of her sister's absence, mother's abuse and father's death, and deeply, earnestly kind. You take that person and you break her. You make her kill. You turn her into a weapon. You watch her go cold, like some king of snowgrave.

And for what? There is no reward. No unique good ending as far as you can tell. No treasure. Nothing that justifies the cost. The weird route gives you nothing except the knowledge of what you did.

So again: what's your excuse?

Right now, the only honest answer is curiosity. You want to see what happens. You want to explore the edges of the game. These are legitimate reasons to play a video game. They are not narrative justifications. From within the world, from the perspective of a player who is supposed to care about Kris and Susie and Noelle and Ralsei, there is currently no reason to do the weird route except to see what Toby hid there.

Ralsei told you nothing changes. You did it anyway. You hurt Noelle anyway. Why?
The game does not give you an answer.

Unless Noelle is the Knight.

What Changes When You Know

Imagine you're playing the full release. All chapters, start to finish. You play through the normal route first. You see the story unfold. And then, sometime around Chapter 5 or 6, the Knight's helmet comes off.

It's Noelle.

Now you understand. Now you go back to Chapter 2 and you look at the weird route completely differently.

Because you can reach her. You know it already. You can change her. Put her on a divergent path. Make her into something she wasn't before.
Now you have a good reason to take a shot at snowgrave.
It might hurt, but it's the only shot you have.

Kris knows this. Kris knows you'll ruin her. It all adds up.

And if Noelle is the one opening the fountains, if Noelle is the one Carol is using, the one pushing the world toward the Roaring or whatever she has planned, then suddenly the weird route is not darkness for its own sake.
Maybe you thought Pain itself was the reason why, no. The weird route is a desperate attempt to change fate, it sucks but it just might be crazy enough to work.
It's an attempt to take control of the knight.

The Only Reason That Works

This is the only Knight reveal that gives the player a legitimate goal. Not just a cool or cruel twist (see what I did there?). A goal.

If the Knight is Carol, learning that changes nothing about your behavior. You shrug and the story continues.
If the Knight is Dess, you feel sad and the story continues.

If the Knight is Noelle, you have a reason to go back and try to change her path. To get the Knight under your control. To redirect the person making the fountains. To actually alter the outcome in a way Ralsei said was impossible.
The weird route stops being "let's see what happens if I'm evil" and becomes "this is the only way I can reach the person who is threatening everything, and MAYBE I can change what's coming."
It's so good because it HURTS, it hurts Noelle and it hurts YOU.

But now the weird route has a justification that exists inside the story, not just outside it. Now the player is making a choice that means something beyond "I wanted to see the bad ending."

This is what the weird route has been missing. A reason. A legitimate, in-universe, narratively coherent reason to consider it even if you care about these characters.

And Noelle being the Knight is the only reveal that provides it.

4D Chess

Here is what this does to the story.

If Noelle is the Knight, the entire game transforms into a fight over one person. Carol is pulling her one way, using her as a tool, forcing her to open the fountains, keeping her under control. Kris is pulling her another way, trying to protect her from us and probably Carol too while playing along, trying to keep her identity hidden so we don't do exactly what we're capable of doing. The player can pull her a third way, taking control of her in the weird route, bending her toward our will, turning her into our vessel.
Now it would be really fucked up if Carol wanted us to do the weird route all along, it just keeps thickening man. I'm not gonna speculate on that for this theory because we just don't know yet.

And Noelle is in the middle. Being torn apart.
The normal route leaves her in Carol's hands. The weird route puts her in ours. Neither is freedom. Neither is the answer. The true ending, the one the game is building toward, is Noelle choosing for herself. Breaking free of Carol. Breaking free of us. Banishing the Angel's Heaven, which is whatever has been deemed "best for her" by people who are not her.
Maybe the Angel's desire was what was best for Noelle, and that's of course, her choosing for herself what she wants to be.
Have you made the connection yet? The entirety of CH2 is a microcosm of the whole story, Queen is Carol forcing Noelle to be the knight, Noelle crashes out on the Queen telling her how she will never be happy under her control. The Queen understands her mistake, she then tells Noelle to create the world she wants instead.
I will go more in depth on the CH2 section.

This is the entire story of Deltarune. Control. Agency. Freedom. Who gets to decide. And Noelle is the axis it all turns on.

None of this works if the Knight is anyone else. If it's Carol, the conflict is external, we fight a villain womp womp. If it's Dess, the conflict is tragic but distant, we mourn someone who was already gone. If it's Noelle, the conflict is everyone fighting over the same person, and that person has to decide who she actually is when the helmet comes off.

The game becomes 4D chess. Every character pulling Noelle in a different direction, like she's a pawn made into a knight when she reaches the other side. Man, talk about Chess theory 2.0
Pulling Noelle from all sides until she shatters... But what if she refused...

The MANTLE Foreshadowing

The black deer in the MANTLE minigame is not Dess. It's Noelle.

There have been different theories on the minigame but let me make it clear, It is exclusively about the weird route. It exists to connect us to the weird route
It's not a hint that Dess is in the code. It's a warning about what we're going to do to Noelle. The game is telegraphing it. The minigame is literally showing you how to do the weird route.

And if Noelle is the Knight, that foreshadowing gains another layer: we are practicing control over the person who is opening the Fountains. MANTLE is us learning how to reach her. The game is teaching us how to pull the strings.

If Noelle is the Knight, and the weird route is the player's attempt to take control of her, and the game builds toward a final confrontation where we expect to find Dess under that helmet, imagine this. We don't.

We find Noelle.

And in that moment, we experience exactly what Noelle felt when she realized Dess wasn't coming back. We thought we were so close. We thought we knew where this was going. We thought Dess was at the end of this, and if we just reached far enough, pulled hard enough, we could bring her back.

The IceShockinlgy cold truth is that Dess is not here. She never was. And you spent all that time digging into the game files looking for her, just like Noelle.
In the end, we were just like each other huh? It's almost funny.

Are you convinced yet?
I hope not, I haven't even addressed the problems yet.

Problem: Noelle doesn't know about the dark worlds.

When we enter CH2's dark world we see Noelle on her knees asking for help. Presumably because the wires are attacking everyone, then she's quickly captured.
I went through the chapter expecting Berdly and Noelle to have a bigger reaction being in a dark world but they actually adjust surprisingly well. In Noelle's case this is because she rationalizes it to be a dream, we will come back to this.
Immediately when we get Noelle on our party we find out that she doesn't know how battles work and she has never been in one before. Noelle has no reason to lie here as she's alone with Kris. Even though I assume Kris already told Noelle not to talk about knight stuff even when they are alone, Noelle would still no reason to lie, she seems confused about battles and while the screen about Kris and Virovirokun explaining Noelle how battles work COULD be a charade by Kris to fool the player, I wouldn't reach that far.
Upon learning how battles work Noelle's first line is:
"I get it! It's kind of like Dragon Blazers!"
This gives us a clue on Noelle's perspective on the dark worlds. She immediately rationalizes things as a game and then as a dream. Her go-to trauma response is suppression and this is shown multiple times.
On CH2, after we seal the dark fountain we can explore the town a little bit. One of the NPCs in the supermarket tells us:

  • Can your family not come in here when I'm looking at milk
  • Sometimes the hoofed girl comes here,
  • Opens the freezer door...
  • Then stands in front of it, lost in thought.
  • Guess she really likes the cold. Or waffles.
    This dialogue isn't there for no reason, the game is establishing the fact that Noelle often goes into a daze, gets lost in thought and presumably also gets fixated on the cold, this NPC alone witnessed it more than once.
    We also see this happen in the weird route when we force Noelle to use snowgrave, what happens?
    She goes down on her knees, head down, then asks what happened?
    "There was so much snow, I couldn't see anything..."
    "I don't feel so good... I think I'm gonna go home."
    Noelle then goes to her room in Queen's castle, Susie tells her that everything is a dream later. I will go more into detail about the CH2 dark world in general but having Susie come and tell her everything is a dream, saving her from her burden of knowing she's actually doing all this is EXACTLY what Noelle would want, and that's why it happens, because the dark world was made with her will.
    Anyways, my point here is that the game both makes it a main aspect of Noelle that she goes through the process of daze > rationalization > suppression as a trauma response but GOES OUT OF ITS WAY to plant more and more lines here and there alluding to it as well.
    Now I could sit here and simply say "Well, duh, Noelle isn't aware of what she's doing because she's in a trance!" because we literally do the "Trance" stat go up when we make her equip the ThornRing, dust my hands and proceed with the theory and it would still be a solid case based on hard evidence.
    But I don't think that's what's going on.
    I think Toby is very deliberately and carefully describing the process Noelle goes through because it makes sense for the story, her character, motives etc. There's something being put down that you're expected to pick up
    Noelle isn't lying to us, Noelle isn't evil or working for an evil force because she's in on the end goal neither is she fully unaware of her actions. She loves playing games with Kris and I have every reason to believe deep down she likes being the knight too, we see how she enjoys getting stronger, having control in the weird route, she even thinks Berdly is a generic enemy and suggests killing him before we even say anything.
    Noelle isn't fully in the dark about what she's doing, but she doesn't know everything either, it's like she's in some king of place in between... Something like The edge of the shadow, where reality and dream meet or maybe some king of Penumbra Phantasm.
    It's easy to assume Noelle really doesn't know anything that's going on but I want you the picture Noelle, desperately trying to make sense of all that's happening to her while her life crumbles around her all the while you bang her on the head.
    See things from her perspective, at this point, why wouldn't she bring the roaring? But of course she doesn't, she's truly an Angel at heart. This is why she can't let herself succumb to the stress and trauma, this is why she has to try so hard to cope with everything that's happening, this is why she gets lost in the cold of a freezer, this is why she stares blankly into the distance while rocking on her knees.
    Noelle doesn't have multiple personalities, she's not controlled by a hypnotic trance, she's a young girl with the weight of the world on her shoulders, literally. 2 worlds actually.
    Remember how Noelle mentions she doesn't mind being scared as long as she's comforted afterwards? The horror that grew to consume her life ended up being the only caring embrace for her, isn't that fucked up? I don't want to make the argument that "Noelle knight is true because it makes the story BETTER!!!!" but man is it hard to help myself sometimes. I swear I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried, man, it's all Toby I swear.

Before we move onto how the whole story works, I want to add more evidence that supports the Noelle knight theory, I'm bound to miss some as it's foreshadowed in every scene in every room in every chapter but I'll do my best, I would also suggest checking the videos I linked at the beginning for proof as well, then you can come back and compare my case to theirs, because I do think the ultimately fail.

  • Knight's hurt sound is LITERALLY Noelle's scream
    If you deal a significant amount of damage to the knight (above 100 iirc) she plays a different hurt sound, and it's literally Noelle's scream from CH2 in a lower bitrate. Also as far as I can tell it's impossible to deal that much damage to the knight UNLESS you are using rude buster or everyone except Kris is down, which makes perfect sense as Noelle would have no reason to hold back her noise when only Kris is there to hear it and it would also make sense for her to not be unable to hold it back while she's getting hit on (hehe) by her crush.
    "B-B-B-B-B-Bbut Toby reuses sounds all the time!! This doesn't prove anything!!"
    Yes he does and no it's not smoking gun evidence but if it was a sound directly related to Carol or Dess, you would NEVER hear the end of it. Also what's funny is I see Dess knighters comment on this saying "Aww, Dess is so badass in that suit of armor but she still yelps JUST LIKE HER SISTER LOL" like, dude, like. You're SO close.
    https://files.catbox.moe/df7z13.mp4
  • Noelle is the only one who you can't ask about the shelter
    Already been over this but I want to mention it again quickly, go see for yourself, everyone you talk to at church mentions something that directly alludes to the shelter EXCEPT for Noelle who gets the questions with the most plausible deniability, considering it's Kris who gives us the choices, this makes perfect sense.
    Before someone uses it as a rebuttal, Rudy doesn't get any choices that are directly linked to the shelter either but his choices are mostly about things unrelated to our mission anyway so he does at least have a good excuse.
  • Starwalker is Noelle's key
    The theory video Requiem of the Roaring Knight makes a very interesting point I never considered before, that being Starwalker is Noelle's key. This makes perfect sense for so many reasons and also explains why it's so hard to miss, because Kris actively wants to avoid it. It makes sense Noelle would lose her key where the dark world is because she made the fountain, from then on Noelle leaves the gate unlocked so it only "appears" locked to us instead of just "being locked" because Noelle still doesn't have her key. If she forgot it at home, she would just pick it up the next day. Now for the sake of the argument I could grant that she's a silly goose who keeps forgetting but it just makes more sense for her to have dropped it when she made the fountain, that's also why Kris keeps in a pocket we can't reach alongside the knife. Not to mention that Starwalker is literally a "key" item that's not particularly out of place in any dark world and it makes sense that the Holidays have a key in the shape of a star ornament.
    This also isn't smoking gun evidence but it just works TOO well with Noelle knight that I can't help but think this is all intentional, again I couldn't make this shit up if I tried.
  • LEFT HANDED KNIGHT!!!
    I want to quickly debunk this as it's somehow still brought up. No one in Deltarune is explicitly stated or implied to be right or left handed, the sprites get flipped all the time and if we assume the mouse placements are intentional that would suggest MOST monsters are left handed, this doesn't prove anything for anyone no matter how you spin it.
  • Noelle knight debunks They Slash Them
    I will address this more in depth in CH3 but They Slash Them theory has been bugging me since CH3 was released, people theorized over it then eventually just brushed it aside, deeming it not too important. IT IS.
    Why would Ralsei be surprised by the knight swooning Susie? The idea that Kris did it makes sense at first glance but then Ralsei proceeds to never bring it up. I would be on board with this theory if there was even a SINGLE line where Ralsei cleared this up, or even a face sprite implying something about it and I'd be down but it just doesn't make sense that Kris slashed them.
    People point out that Ralsei could have been talking to Susie as in "How could you go down so easily??" umm? Ralsei? Are you stupid? We've been getting our asses kicked and we're tired of course she gets swooned, doesn't make sense.
  • Bat vs Sword
    The main pillar of Dess knight theory is the bat, the dreaded bat. Dess knighters insist that she's holding a bat, Carol knighters insist it's a sword. Think for a moment, can you think of anyone who is associated with both? Someone who has access to both of those things?
    You can bicker day and knight on who's right on what the weapon is, at the end of the day no matter who wins, it's evidence for Noelle, the fact that people can't decide is ALSO evidence for Noelle.
    Noelle can equip swords in CH4, weird route is building up to the twisted sword which gives Noelle trance DOWN and Noelle is associated with baseball through her connection to Dess, she also has easy access to both swords and baseball bats. It's uncharacteristic for Carol to use a bat, it's not too weird for Dess to use a sword but the character that works perfectly with both is Noelle, so if you're going to bring up the knight's weapon for your theory, know that Noelle has the upper hand on this. Also the sword does get a hilt in some sprites, the fact of the matter is, it's hard to tell because it's black and it's in the dark.
    I also think that the knight could be using a flashlight as a weapon, makes sense with her hand "glowing" and her attacks could be shadow puppets made in the flashlight's spot.
  • Unused fire attack sprites
    People somehow bring this up to support Dess knight theory, there's an unused attack sprite in the game files that's clearly a fire attack. This... somehow supports Dess?
    This is what happens when people don't read the dialogue, man. At the hospital, while Noelle plays Blood Crushers III with Rudy, she struggles to beat the Ice Palace boss because she keeps using Ice Shock. Rudy suggests her to use Fire Shock instead.
    She LITERALLY doesn't use Fire Shock and that's why it's UNUSUED.
    We have a scene where we are EXPLICITLY told that Noelle does NOT use fireshock.
    We find fire shock in the game files, it's unused.
    IT'S UNUSED, BECAUSE IT WAS NOT USED. How could this be any clearer? This fact alone can be used to make the whole case for Noelle knight.
    Keep in mind this is also the point in the story where we see Noelle act unNoellelike, even Rudy is concerned.
    Alt Tag
  • Sword route shows us Noelle's perspective being the knight
    Remember how I told you about Noelle's mental state while she does the knight stuff, well turns out I didn't even need to do any of that because the game puts you in her shoes.
    You control Kris controlling Kris controlled by you to control Noelle in the MANTLE minigame, the minigame is all about the weird route where you have to hurt and even kill your friends in order to proceed. Sometimes proceeding takes all 3 of you. Kris flinches when you kill their friends and struggles when you get near the shelter to the point you have to physically force them in there.
    But what happens when you're done? You nod, shrug, whistle and rationalize that it's just a game. It's never mentioned again, except, it causes Toriel to have a nightmare. Even ERAM, MARE as in nightmare is Kris's attempt at rationalizing then suppressing the event.
    They go from "This is kinda fun/interesting" to "Oh my God I'm killing my friends" to "Eh... It's just a game after all" to "Man I had such a terrible nightmare, glad everything's just fine now though" to "..."
    The game quite literally makes you, YOU go through what Noelle goes through, do you get it now? As if all the allusions weren't enough let your old pal Toby hit you in the face with a cracked wiffle bat. Do you feel a migraine coming on?
    In retrospect I should have dedicated a whole section for this alone because it's massive but whatever.
  • Knight aura farming and Kris mimicry
    Carol's old grandma ass ain't pulling moves like that, yeah we know but it's not Dess either. It's cute to think that Kris is copying Dess because they looked up to her but I think this is actually Noelle copying Kris because she thinks Kris is the coolest thing ever. Also, we literally force Kris to control Noelle, this is a theme we go back to again and again. It makes perfect sense for Noelle knight in this case

Alt Tag

  • Don't forget. You promised. Thank you.
    For this point I would first like to establish a few things. Noelle's theme is Lost Girl.
    She's the lost girl, primarily, not Dess.
    https://x.com/tobyfox/status/1173215290349559808
    Toby refers to Lost Girl as Noelle's theme before quickly adding that it's used elsewhere as well, yes it's connected to Dess BECAUSE it's a core part of Noelle's character, if you are going to use Lost Girl to associate things with Dess you must also associate them with Noelle as well.
    I assume I don't have to tell you this but Lost Girl is literally just the freedom motif
    https://files.catbox.moe/xx1ns5.mp4
    Before you bring it up, Girl Next Door isn't Noelle's main theme and even if it was, it's also literally just Lost Girl.
    Lost Girl and FREEDOM are one and the same, they are both the deepest desires of Noelle, her desire to find her sister and her desire to break free of everyone's control.
    IF Noelle is the knight, it makes PERFECT sense for her to implant the darkners she creates using shadow crystals with the freedom motif, I will talk about Gerson on the CH4 section, and this also explains why Air Waves have the freedom motif. It's directly tied to Cat Petterz, the game Noelle loved to play that likely caused FRIEND to appear in the first place. Why else would Air Waves have the freedom motif? Seriously, try to come up with an explanation that doesn't tie back to Noelle. No, this doesn't work for Dess knight, all roads lead to Noelle.
    Did I mention that Lost Girl is also in Nightmare Knight? As in, the knight in a nightmare?
    https://files.catbox.moe/ewrwii.mp4
    There's much debate on who's singing "Don't forget." there are many answers that make sense but I've come to believe that, can you guess? Noelle, well not just Noelle but it's probably Noelle and Kris singing to each other:

When the light is running low
And the shadows start to grow
And the places that you know
Seem like fantasy

There's a light inside your soul
That's still shining in the cold
With the truth
The promise in our hearts

Don't forget
I'm with you in the dark

Before I break this down I want to mention the callers in CH4, it's obviously Carol and she sounds weird because we can't clearly hear what's being said, Carol is confirmed to be the caller on weird route.
But wait, normal and weird route endings are different and in the normal ending, the caller speaks in a way different manner:

... Kris...
... don't forget, Kris...
... you promised.

Alt Tag

This is NOT Carol, it doesn't fit her manners and it's not something she would say. Carol caller defenders interpret this scene as Carol guilt tripping Kris into working for her, not at all. First of all it's strange at best for Carol to use such juvenile language to pressure Kris, she would say something like "Kris, remember our agreement."
It's less of a "I own you. You will do what I say." and more of a "Please..."
Kris's name is even mentioned twice to indicate desperation, like the caller is desperate to reach Kris. Why? What did they promise?
There are multiple satisfactory answers and no hard proof for any of them but if I had to put my money I'd say Kris promised to:

Be with her in the dark.

That's why Noelle is so desperate to reach Kris, to remind them that they promised to protect her, to be with her no matter how dark it gets, even if it gets darker than dark.
This idea led me to believe that Kris isn't working with Carol out of obligation.
At first you would think Kris HAS to work for Carol, presumably because they are the reason Dess went missing/died/got gastered/became the knight/whatever so Kris has to fix what she broke, makes sense.
That could very well be the case but I think Kris is working with Carol specifically so she can protect Noelle, they know if they don't play along with the plan Noelle is going to get hurt, that's why when they got dragged into knight business they made a promise to each other.
You would think the song is being sang TO Kris but I think it goes both ways, it's a promise in their hearts, to light each other's way and be there for each other.
I like to think this was right before opening the CH1 fountain, that would be poetic.
You can also just picture Noelle humming this to herself in a daze, comforting herself, as she does when she's scared.

When I looked up "don't forget deltarune" to get the lyrics, I noticed something I never noticed before which made my jaw drop.
Don't Forget is track #39
3 9 - San, Kyuu, Thank you.
and with that we get the whole line.

Don't forget, you promised to be with me in the dark. Thank you.
Alt Tag

If you think this is a coincidence better take yo sensitive ass back to toilet theory we CLOWN in this muthafucka

Let's also now address Raise Up Your Bat:

WHEN THE DEMON HEART IS CRYING
AND THE BLOOD IS GUSHING BRIGHT
RAISE UP YOUR BAT FOR THE BURNING FIGHT
WHEN YOUR HOPE IS SLOWLY DYING
AND YOUR FUTURE'S LOST ITS RIGHTS
RAISE UP YOUR BAT AND FACE THE FRIGHT
LET'S KNOCK EM DEAD INTO THE NIGHT

Come follow me into the dark
With your heart as the ark
Which shall shine you the way
Because I'm with you in the dark
With your heart as my mark
Which shall guide you the way,
through the waves

Come follow me into the dark
With your heart as the ark
Which shall shine you the way
Because I'm with you in the dark
With your heart as my mark
Which shall guide you the way,
through the waves

WHEN THE DEMON HEART IS CRYING
AND THE BLOOD IS GUSHING BRIGHT
RAISE UP YOUR BAT FOR THE BURNING FIGHT
WHEN YOUR HOPE IS SLOWLY DYING
AND YOUR FUTURE'S LOST ITS RIGHTS
RAISE UP YOUR BAT AND FACE THE FRIGHT
LET'S KNOCK EM DEAD INTO THE NIGHT

Tenna mentions Dess to really drill into your head that this song is either made/sung by her or is about her and it's generally one of the biggest pieces of evidence for Dess knight.
SIKE!
This song is clearly ALL ABOUT Noelle on the weird route. Dess knighters love this one because DUDE it's LITERALLY TITLED RAISE UP YOUR BAT!!!
Okay? If we assume Noelle is the knight she's the one who raises up the bat anyway. I already established that Don't Forget is about Noelle and this song works exactly the same way as it does, just think about Noelle and Kris singing this to each other. It works perfectly.
Now actually try to make this work for Dess, what's the connection beyond the word "bat"
"B--B-B-B-B-BBUT THEN WHY DID TENNA MENTION DESS"
Kris scripted the whole show with Tenna and he's killed the very second he goes off script, you fell for Kris's plan AGAIN. Might wanna call the line for idiot babies, tell 'em it's an emergency.

  • Shadow crystals are broken promises
    And so wept the fallen star, making rivers with its tears.
    Then, slowly, from the bitter water, something grew.
    It looked like glass.
    Hate to ruin the mood but somehow Dess knighters point to this as evidence for their theory when it's literally the MOST NOELLE LINE IN THE GAME.
    Fallen stars weeping huh? Glass growing from the water from their tears?
    The curtains aren't just blue bro, this is talking about BROKEN PROMISES.
    Noelle had so much planned for the future, especially with Dess, talking about how Dess was going to take her to a city, in Undertale there's an echo flower about 2 sisters who want to see the real stars. Dess's disappearance breaks all the promises made, all their wishes vanish. Their hopes and dreams refused.
    This line clearly alludes to Noelle being the origin of the shadow crystals, I don't know if she literally "makes" them but she's certainly the one giving them to darkners.
    Before you make any connections with the star being Dess, let me remind you that it works just as well for Noelle.
    Now that the elephant is addressed let me make my point. All shadow crystal lines point to Noelle knight here are all the lines:

Shadow Crystal

  • You held the crystal up to your eye.
    • For some strange reason, for just a brief moment...
      • You thought you saw toys strewn on the floor.
      • You thought you saw the computer lab.
      • You thought you saw the television get smashed to pieces.
      • You thought you saw the lobby of the church.
      • ...but, it must've just been your imagination.
    • ... but nothing happened.
  • It doesn't seem very useful.

In the Dark Sanctuary, the Shadow Crystal interacts with the prophecies appearing throughout.
Dialogue when used in a room with a Prophecy tapestry:

  • You held the crystal up to your eye.
  • For some strange reason, no matter how you look...
  • The prophecy's text does not warp in the crystal's lens.
    Dialogue when used in the room with the last prophecy
  • You held the crystal up to your eye.
  • For some strange reason...
  • The prophecy's text does not warp in the crystal's lens.
  • You shook the crystal...
  • However, nothing changed.

Glass

  • You looked through the glass.
    • For some strange reason, for just a brief moment...
      • You thought you saw through your hand.
      • You thought you saw Susie glaring at you, coldly...
        • But when you moved the glass away,
        • You see her looking at you, smiling and making a rude gesture.
      • _You thought you saw Noelle close against you, whispering.
        • You put the glass to your ear...
        • ... of course, that didn't do anything...
    • ... but nothing happened.
  • You held the crystal up to your eye.
    • For some strange reason, for just a brief moment...
    • You thought you saw Undyne frozen in ice.
  • It doesn't seem very useful.
  • (You didn't quite understand why...)
    • (But, the thought of discarding it felt very wrong.)
  • (For some reason you felt like if you throw it away...)
    • (It would be like throwing away someone's... ???)
    • (... But you didn't fully understand it.)
      Some of the lines stand out and are very very interesting. I'd say Undyne being frozen in ice is a HUGE one, because that's exactly what we would expect to happen after she's taken to the bunker. Carol had Noelle freeze Undyne, duh. We haven't seen the knight use any ice attacks - yet so mentioning that Undyne is frozen in ice directly connects the knight to Noelle.
      Then we have Noelle whispering into Kris's ear. This is VERY strange. You SEE Noelle and Kris work together without your knowledge, what could she be saying? What even are these crystals?
      I have no solid answer to this but I'd like you to entertain this idea:
      They are pieces of save points, looking at them gives us a glimpse as to what was happening at that moment. Now I won't pretend this isn't speculation because we just don't know but even if I'm wrong all the lines still work for Noelle knight in my opinion.
      Leaked CH5 dialogue of Seam cuts off just before he mentions what power these crystals hold and the word he was going to use is most likely DETERMINATION.
      If they are made out of determination, they could SAVE. What if they are pieces of save points from the past or maybe even the future?
      "You thought you saw through your hand"
      This is clearly about Kris losing their hand, next. The saves could also be Noelle's btw, in which case this would tie into Noelle getting the holy stigmata through crucifixion, fitting into the messianic theme she has going on. This could also be the first time she turns into the knight.
      "You thought you saw Susie glaring at you, coldly..."
      This could be Susie after she finds out Noelle is the knight. Or it could be a save from the past back when Susie hated Kris. Works both for Noelle and Kris
      "You thought you saw Undyne frozen in ice."
      This is clearly right after Undyne is taken to the shelter, if the shadow crystals ARE saves, then it would probably make more sense for this to be Noelle's save in my opinion
      "You thought you saw Noelle close against you, whispering."
      This is obviously Kris's save as Noelle wouldn't whisper into Noelle's ear unless... NOELLE CLONE THEORY- Jokes aside this might be the most important one. This is probably the LAST save Kris made before we took over, the save we overwrite on CH1, the save they made just before opening the fountain with Noelle.

Again, take all of this with a grain of salt, I just wanted to elaborate more on the crystals and this isn't particularly something I'm convinced on and Noelle knight isn't damaged if this fails. It's just very interesting how Noelle knight puts all of this into an angle that makes sense.

Also, Asgore's crystal was most likely not given to him by Noelle, he either found it himself or got it from Carol. If it ends up being Asgore who makes the CH5 fountain, then I expect him to leave the shadow crystal on his TV or something which would create... WOODY FROM THE CANCELED COWBOY SHOW BABYYYYY

  • SMILE_FRIEND
    Noelle knight is the gift that keeps on giving, I wasn't even expecting to touch on FRIEND when I began making this theory but I've come to believe that FRIEND is... Noelle's smile. How does a darkner become a smile? Well it would need some sort of vessel first, maybe something it could hatch from... That's right, FRIEND is the spawn from the glitched egg Noelle got in Cat Petterz but more specifically, the smile she had while playing the game. The egg got so happy that it left, with the smile. Why was FRIEND not there in CH1? Because she hadn't smiled yet. How long did it take her to smile?

:)

  • EGGS
    All this talk of trauma, rationalization and suppression and no mention of the eggs? Well I believe the eggs are all about Kris, it's their attempt to suppress, just like Noelle. It all still can be found of course, in a place in between, just like FRIEND. It makes sense for Kris's trauma to parallel Noelle's in the dark worlds as they are made in both of their will, they planned the entirety of CH1 together, setting the stage, putting king in charge etc. and CH2 leaned more towards Noelle because Kris had minimal input on that dark world.
    Eggs may be eggs because they stem from the eggs Noelle found in her games, this isn't a powerful connection but interesting nonetheless.
  • Ralsei knows

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Ralsei knows Noelle is the knight from the very beginning, this is why he keeps his distance and doesn't heal much from Noelle Tea. Noelle barely acknowledges Ralsei in CH2 and also comments on how there's nothing in the cup when you make her drink Ralsei Tea. This is because Noelle didn't make Ralsei so whe wasn't subconsiously expecting to see him in the dark world. I won't explore what Ralsei is in this theory but he isn't made by the knight and is in opposition to her.
Ralsei might not dislike Noelle, he seems to acknowledge that Noelle is a sweet person but he knows they are enemies, this context makes a few scenes shadow crystal clear.
First, we go back to the Susie swoon moment again. It only makes sense for Ralsei to be surprised IF the knight is Noelle and Ralsei knows this. If Carol or Dess swooned Susie, Ralse wouldn't say "HH-H-H-H-H-H-HOW COUDL YOU????" he was clearly shocked by Noelle hitting Susie, yes, it's not like her to do this, yes that's the point, yes the game immediately draws attention on this, yes. yes.
Ralsei also tries to reason with the knight when you make him talk to her. He says:
"If the roaring happens then..."
"Please stop"
He tries reasoning before cutting himself. Almost as if he wanted say something specific to the person behind the mask. Maybe something like "Susie and Kris will get lost in the dark!" or something but of course, he couldn't reveal the truth to Susie.
It goes further than this, Ralsei was shocked because he knows that Noelle is a good person, keep this in mind. On CH4 just before the knight summons the titan Ralsei, in desperation, attempts to reason with the knight. Ralsei begs the knight to stop, she does it anyway.
Now why would Ralsei even attempt to reason with Carol or Dess? Ralsei has us believe roaring is the whole goal anyway, it doesn't make sense to politely ask her to stop at this point. Dess is presumably not even fully conscious if she is the knight so that doesn't make sense either.
Ralsei is begging Noelle to stop because he knows she is a good person. You might think he would do this regardless of the knight's true identity as it's in character for him but REMEMBER, none of these lines are a coincidence, the game draws attention to the relationship between Ralsei and the knight for a purpose. SO YOU CAN TELL WHO THE KNIGHT IS. THE GAME WANTS YOU TO FIGURE THIS OUT SO YOU HAVE A REASON TO GO TRY THE WEIRD ROUTE.

  • Shelter panel
    If we assume Noelle is the knight the shelter panel is most likely solved. It's a list of people authorized to go into the shelter as they please.
    The police badge is Undyne (OR Asgore)
    The Delta Rune is Kris
    The Tree is Noelle
    Obviously Carol is the mayor so she owns it in the first place and she gave all the people that need to go into the shelter, Noelle's password is obviously 1225
    It's not that those people had clues or needed to be gathered for some purpose, but rather it's a list of people who can enter the shelter as authorized by the mayor. So it's not sacrifice grocery list. I'm leaning more towards the badge being Undyne because Alphys specifically mentions seeing Undyne and Carol go there and Asgore seems to be in the dark on what Carol is doing, having his own theories as to what's going on.
    If the shelter door DOES require all 3 people to be present this would match perfectly with the ending of CH3 as that means Noelle, Undyne and Kris were all present when the shelter door opened.
  • The final prophecy panel
    Noelle knight doesn't solve the final panel but it gives us a new idea.
    At the end of CH4 on the weird route, before leaving, Susie says "We won't let that happen". Noelle calls you at the same time to remind you of the promise you made, the screen is quite literally SPLIT in two in this case, just like Kris.
    This makes me believe that whatever it says on the final panel, it must put Susie and Noelle at opposite ends. It would make sense if it's something like "The girl falls to the knight" or something which could end up being all about Noelle instead of being about Susie AND Noelle, it could also be that the fun gang turn on each other or sacrifice Ralsei or something. Susie seemed to put most emphasis on the fact that Ralsei wouldn't allow it so I'm leaning towards it mentioning the girl and the knight, this will of course lead into another twist, revealing the two were one and the same and the girl falling to the knight meant her accepting her role as the knight omg!!! I'm not full convinced on this but it's important to point out that Noelle knight fills this gap perfectly.
    Oh and also, what was it that knights are known for doing in legend?
    Oh...
    That's right...
    They slay dragons...

Before finally moving onto breaking down the whole story and how it works so far, here are some bullet points I've already been over, at this point I'm not even sure what I mentioned and forgot because there's so many things to point out but I want to quickly compile some points here just in case:

  • Lost girl motif is literally the freedom motif
  • Toby officially referred to Lost Girl as Noelle's theme
  • 1225 isn't just Dess's number, it's also Noelle's
  • All Dess symbolism also works as Noelle symbolism
  • Black deer in the minigame is Noelle, foreshadowing our control on her in the weird route
  • Mantle minigame is only about the weird route
  • In Wachifield it's Noel that lures shadows into Satan's forest. Satan is Carol in this case
  • Don't Forget is track 39 which means "thank you"
  • Dess being the knight contradicts her role as the missing girl
  • Dess is stuck in the code or somewhere in the dark, she can't be interacting with the light world consciously
  • Dess knight relies on multiple other theories that have to be made up completely from speculation
  • Dess being the knight would ruin Noelle's reunion with her, if we get one
  • Deltarune isn't Mother/Earthbound, if it was going to be a Mother twist, Asriel would be the knight

Are you convinced yet? I hope not.

CHAPTER 1

Kris and Noelle reminisced on their memories as kids playing with cards and toys as they rearranged the unused classroom into the kingdom their dark world would soon become. They put the king of spades over the domain and put all the other king cards in old animal cracker boxes, imprisoning them. Noelle placed a piece of glass behind the joker card as she commented on how fun it was playing with Kris back in the day, it felt nice to do it again, even though it was... Forced by her mother. The kingdom looked pretty good, a tyrant ruling over it, a path filled with puzzles and goons (heh) fit for an adventure, then they placed the cat in the middle for guidance, it was the oldest of these toys, a certain someone loved playing with it...
Suddenly, Kris pulled out their knife which made Noelle jump.
"Kris! You know I hate it when you do that!"
Kris nodded, Noelle couldn't tell if they were smiling or not, maybe they couldn't bring themselves to smile.
"So... Now all I'm supposed to do is concentrate and... stab the ground?"
Kris nodded again.
They went through the basics of the game, just to make sure they are on the same page. Noelle then took a deep breath.
"Okay... Here I go..."
"..."
"K-Kris..."
"Sorry I know I keep delaying but..."
"When I do this, it's going to get very dark, right?"
"Darker than dark?"
"..."
"Then..."
"Promise."
"Promise you'll be there with me. No matter how dark it gets."
"..."
Noelle then closed her eyes and concentrated before she stabbed the earth and pulled a fountain from deep within.
"Eep! I-Is that, is that it?"
Kris quickly grabbed Noelle by the hand and ran out the classroom. Her house key dropped as they ran outside in a hurry.
"Kris?"
"Did I get the chalk? Of course! Look I have the box right here."
"..."
"Got it."

This is where the player enters the scene and game progresses as normal. I want to draw your attention to the fact Noelle is the one who set everything in motion. When Alphys noticed that all the chalk was gone she was the one who suggested that she and Susie go get some from the supply closet.
Does this mean the plan was for Noelle to go into the dark world with Susie? I don't think so, if Alphys didn't send Kris to go with her instead, Kris would have excused themselves to go check up on them because it makes sense for the plan to be for Susie AND Kris go into the DW. Think about this, do you think Alphys just canceled school after Susie and Kris ended up not bringing the chalk? No, Noelle went to go close the closet's room with Susie and Kris inside, she most likely did this by asking Alphys to go check up on Kris and Susie. Then she went back to class, told everyone she didn't see them but brought the chalk. Of course she had the chalk all along, the plan worked perfectly.
Alternatively, Noelle could have went to school early and made the fountain on the same day as CH1 but I think my explanation makes more sense.
But why is she doing this? Mainly because Carol told her so. We don't know how exactly Carol got Noelle and Kris to do these things but we can presume that finding Dess is either a goal or an excuse to get them to play along.
Noelle also may have been in a dark world before this as she's very powerful and knows a lot of spells that are weird for her to know when it takes Susie so long to learn. If she has indeed been in a dark world before, I would assume she rationalized those memories as video games which is why she is unfamiliar with how battles work in CH2. I don't think it's useful to speculate on if she has been in a DW before these events though.
From this point, the chapter continues as normal, we go home, credits roll.
So far Noelle makes perfect logistical sense. Carol also could be the one shutting the door behind us but it's still a bit off. All evidence we have currently points towards Noelle or Kris, and we know Kris isn't the knight.

CHAPTER 2

CH2 starts off with Susie shaking Kris asking if all of that was actually real? This isn't too important just wanted to highlight how EVERYONE goes through the rationalization process Noelle does.
...
Kris and Susie met in front of the supply closet. For a moment, Susie wonders if she opens to door to see the normal closet, could she stay friends with Kris? She's interrupted before she can find out as Noelle walks up to the fuck gang.
She timidly invites Susie to come study with them at the computer lab in the librarby, Susie accepts. Before she leaves, Noelle gives Susie a lunchbox, cute. Susie opens the box to see...
CHALK

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"SHE HAD CHALK THE WHOLE TIME?"
"AND SHE DIDN'T GIVE IT TO ALPHYS?"
Well but she did, how else would they proceed with the lesson? Noelle just wanted give Susie a gift because Kris told her that Susie likes to eat chalk. What's very very interesting here is how Susie draws attention to the idea that she had it all along.
The player would assume Noelle bought a bunch of chalk for her and we would be correct but that's not the point of this scene, it's there to imply that Noelle is the one who put everything in motion. You won't believe what Susie says next...
Susie comments on how she was blushing and nervous while asking her to study with her.
"She's onto our secret identities!?"
"Y'know. This... Dark World stuff."
Susie is used as a plot device her not once but twice to direct your attention to

  1. Noelle putting everything in motion
  2. Secret identities involving dark worlds
    Do I have to spell it out?
    The gang visit Ralsei, nothing too interesting here. They then leave to go to the library.
    While they are visiting Ralsei, Noelle and Berdly make their way to the lab and begin studying. Their books are indeed closed when we get to see it so it may be the case that they fell asleep before studying even a little bit.
    How would Noelle open the fountain in this case?
    There are too many options to as to how this could go that I find it hard to pin it down into just one scenario. Noelle may have put Berdly to sleep by repeating that one excerpt from the beginning of the chapter that puts Kris to slip (which is what I assume sleep mist to be) but if that sounds too cartoony there's a plethora of ways Noelle could have opened the fountain without Berdly knowing. The main strength Noelle knight theory has here is that if the knight is anyone else than Noelle, they would have to be hiding in the room connected to the lab from the day prior.
    This means if Noelle isn't the knight, the knight snuck out the school after shutting the door behind Kris and Susie and at some point went into the library and stayed there. The best shot they would have for this would be to go into the room and wait there for a whole day because otherwise they would be spotted, unless being spotted isn't much of a problem for them, this means the knight is someone who wouldn't raise suspicion if they are at the school or the library. Even if you tried making a case for the knight already being in the lab when Noelle and Berdly got there, you're once again pointed at Noelle as the most obvious answer by the logical process of the case you're trying to make.
    But then what about Kris's comment on the room about how a large person can fit inside? That's clearly meant to imply something about the knight.
    Except that's Kris telling you that, remember Kris is doing whatever they can to mislead you while Susie is unknowingly giving you clues by just thinking out loud. Kris saw the room and thought it was the perfect opportunity to mislead you, and that is only if they didn't plan it beforehand which is also possible.
    This dark world is also much more wild and unpredictable as it was made without a previous plan, that's why it takes it's personality directly from Noelle.
    Kris and Susie see that a dark fountain was made inside the computer lab and jump in.
    After going through some obstacles and seeing innocent citizens terrorized by wires the gang find Noelle on her knees, perhaps in a daze, asking for help. She snaps out of it when she notices Susie but she's quickly captured by Queen.
    From this point forward we see that this dark world is all about Noelle, it's the city she wanted Dess to take her, her desire to find her sister is woven everywhere to the point even the moon is a baseball. It's the world she wants, even the Queen is a better version of her mom and the whole city is structured after her search history. Even extremely specific things like sockets having eyes and smiling at her are referenced in the depths of her subconscious, alongside of course, FRIEND.

Queen is Carol

Queen is a maternal figure who believes she knows what's best for Noelle. She wants to use Noelle as her knight to create "a better world" for Noelle's own good, of course. She is controlling, overbearing, convinced that her vision of happiness is the correct one, and utterly incapable of seeing that what she's doing is suffocating the person she claims to care about. She even decides how Noelle should look, wanting to give her a robot face. Remember how Carol didn't approve of Noelle being goth? If you didn't make the connection I don't know what to tell you man.

Carol I mean Queen forces Noelle into the role of knight. She builds a world around Noelle's power and insists Noelle must use it to make everyone happy, whether Noelle wants to or not. And when Noelle finally breaks and tells Queen she will never be happy under her control, Queen stops. She realizes her mistake. She tells Noelle to create the world she wants instead. This also fits into the prophecy and foreshadows a possible good ending where Noelle does indeed break free.
I'm sure most people would agree with me when it comes to this scene paralleling Noelle's relationship with her mother, but if you even IMPLY that the rest of the scene, the part where NOELLE IS FORCED TO BE THE KNIGHT is also suggested, you get CRUCIFIED (like Noelle).

This is the entire arc of Deltarune in miniature. Carol is using Noelle as the knight to create what Carol believes is best. The true ending, the one the game is building toward (hopefully) is Noelle rejecting that control and choosing freedom. Banishing the Angel's Heaven. This also means Carol's desire was truly what was best for Noelle and she was just... stupid or homophobic.

The Dark World Was Made FOR Noelle

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Dess knighters love to point out how oh it's a "gift" for Noelle made by Dess as if the reason why the dark world is made "for" Noelle couldn't possibly be Noelle making it and influencing subconsciously. Even if you were to grant the surface level things, how could Dess know of thing hidden in Noelle's subconscious like the smiling sockets? And for God's sake, she gets to go on 2 whole dates with 2 baddies she's been crushing on since she were 6-7, she's also "saved" by Susie just when she needs it the most, because she influenced the world in a way that would make that happen.

Another thing I just thought of is, if it was Dess who made the fountain, we would see SOME stuff related to Asriel wouldn't we? There's nothing in CH2 that's about Asriel except his room we can't see.

Spamton is also alluded to be directly created by her. Spamton already knows Noelle because she used to read every spam e-mail looking for Dess which is most likely what caused a single Dess line to appear within Spamton.
Spamton is also the key player in the weird route, selling us the ThornRing. He's completely consumed by the desire for freedom, all thanks to Noelle.
I wouldn't use this as proof but it would be funny to think this is the reason Spamton calls Noelle hochi mama.
Spamton could also very well be Noelle's last ditch effort at reaching Dess. Printing out all the e-mails then throwing them in the trash in frustration before getting an idea. What if she could directly ask? Noelle then places the piece of glass in the trash can, implanting the freedom motif into Spamton.
This can also imply that shadow crystals allow for communication between light and dark worlds without a fountain, but that's just speculation here.
I like to think Noelle didn't intend Spamton to be an enemy but rather someone who could help her find Dess, someone who could give her a [Specil Deal] for the [Low cost of $19.97] to find [Hello, is anybody there?], funny how something as simple as Noelle throwing some paper in the trash alongside a piece of glass ruined Spamton's [Rapidly shrinking life], really puts into perspective how godlike lightners are for darkners, no wonder Spamton calls Noelle Angel.
Before I move on from this take into consideration how Kris is unable to throw away shadow crystals as it's like "throwing away someone's ???" Knowing how dark worlds work, the piece of glass would need to be inside the trash can for Kris to then take it after defeating Spamton, it's just kinda... sad? Cool? A bit of both?

On the weird route we actually succeed in taking Noelle from Carol I mean Queen. Not in a good way. Not in a way that sets Noelle free. But it pulls her out of Queen's hands, or rather hand in this case as he literally holds up her big ass hand with no Noelle on it, and puts her in ours.
This also ties into the triple trucies parallel.

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Noelle is working together with Carol, Kris and us all in a different dynamic without the other party's knowledge. You might think Carol, Noelle and Kris are on the same side but at this point I'm pretty sure Kris is secretly working against Carol to protect Noelle.
The weird route is us taking on the role of "protecting" her just like how Berdly tells us it's only him that can protect her if you abort the weird route on his fight.

So to wrap it up basically:
Chapter 2 is a miniature of the entire story of Deltarune.
Carol I mean Queen forces Noelle to be the knight.
The chapter ends with either Noelle standing up for herself, breaking free.
The chapter ends with us taking control of Noelle.
Shouldn't be too hard to extrapolate from here.

We seal the fountain, wake up, Noelle comments on having a dream/nightmare but she's fine now that Susie is there to comfort her. Everyone goes home. Or ig berdly fucking dies if you do WR (i wish lol)

The chapter closes with Kris going to the bathroom then jumping out the window to slash Toriel's tires then returning to make the dark fountain. Toriel calls the police, Undyne takes her sweet sweet time and everyone fall asleep, that's when Kris makes the fountain. Between CH1 and 2 if you check the TV we see that it goes from unplugged to plugged, Kris likely instructed Tenna after the ending of CH1.
One thing I don't think people mention enough is how the actual dark world is completely hidden from us by Tenna's show, I think the final dark world will be at the Dreemur house and I imagine it will be similar to Undertale but that's for another theory.
I have good reason to believe Kris instructed Tenna down to many of his individual lines specifically to keep Susie and you distracted.

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CHAPTER 3

Noelle is nowhere in chapter 3, let's move on
SIKE, NOELLE IS ALL OVER CHAPTER 3 AND I DON'T MEAN JUST THE KNIGHT REVEAL

I already talked a lot about the MANTLE minigame so I'd like to mostly touch up on things I skipped past before. When we first try to play the game, we can't because we don't have a controller, right after that a pink and gold controller appears out of thin air for us, how convenient. This already immediately ties the game to Noelle even outside the game's content. But the game itself is meant to put Kris through what Noelle goes through.
If CH2 is the entire story's microcosm, CH3 is Kris's story's microcosm. First of all, the whole dark world is fake and it's slowly crumbling away due to the open door leaking darkness outside and letting light in.
Kris's plan, creates a black screen to trick you, yet leaves a hole that makes it all crumble. Sound familiar?
In case you didn't catch it, TV world doesn't end because the darkners get sick of their roles or whatever, it simply can't remain stable when the darkness keeps pouring outside. It was always meant to be temporary anyway. I don't mean darkners defying Tenna was a part of the script, it was just what the dark world's nature led to.
This directly parallels, and really pretty much spells out how Kris is purposefully misleading you, stretching themselves too thin and leaving holes in their plan as a result. And yet they needed that opening for it to work in the first place.
They fool you by making you think THEY are the knight.
They fool you by overcorrecting whenever we put any suspicion on Noelle, taking off the heat.
They fool you by making you think Carol is the knight.
They fool you by making you think Dess is the knight.
The more they try to fool you, the more they expose in their coverup.
Kris knight theory gets debunked on CH2, Carol and Dess knight contradict each other so feeding implications towards both make us suspicious of both in the end. Most importantly, they overcorrect whenever we put focus on Noelle which in my opinion is what gives it all away.
You might think I'm looking too deeply into this but I just don't see how this is a coincidence. The fact that TV world isn't the real Dreemur house dark world is drilled into your head again and again. It would be one thing if this was Tenna's idea but it's something Kris Forced Tenna to do. It all just connects so perfectly.

That's the first parallel, can you guess what the other big one is? Ramb is to Kris what Queen is to Noelle.
Ramb thinks he's doing what's best for Kris just Like how Queen thinks she's doing what's best for Noelle only this time, Ramb wants to set Kris free instead forcing them down a road where the best choices are made for them.
Ramb is SO connected to freedom in fact that I've seen many players point out how Ramb should have been a secret boss with the freedom motif. Wait... Why DOESN'T he have the freedom motif?
That's because he has no connection to Noelle.
Now guess why Air Waves has the freedom motif?
Because it's directly connected to Noelle.
Ramb straight up tells us "Tenna changed the game to make it BORING but YOU want the real thing" like, no??? I don't???
The irony is, Ramb is forcing his twisted idea of freedom on Kris, or rather, you thinking it's what Kris wants when in fact Kris wants nothing more than to fool you and be done with this charade without your nosy ass snooping around glimpes of their subconscious.
By putting Kris on the sword route, thinking that's what's best for Kris, Ramb resembles us. As I already established, the weird route is the player's shot at taking control to make things better. Ramb is wrong and so are you, I'll explain why the weird route won't give us a happy ending either later.
By doing this, the game makes you face yourself in a way, now you're fully in Kris's shoes, and Kris is in Noelle's shoes. I won't bother repeating myself on the MANTLE minigame but again, it's there to make you go through what Noelle goes through.
It's easy for YOU to shake it off as just a game but think about it, are you sure it was just a game? I've seen players avoid the sword route thinking it would mess up their save, I don't think it will but there's good reason to suspect it might? It's easy to shrug it off but it's also easy to take it seriously. Now consider this:
If the game gave you a real scene and presented it as a minigame, could you tell? Of course not, you only have access to what's put on the screen? This is exactly the situation Kris and Noelle are in. This perfectly summarizes Noelle's perspective being the knight.
Don't come to me saying "NOELLE WOULDN'T DO THAT, IT DOESN'T FIT HER CHARACTER!!" when you did the exact same thing she did.

Before moving on I want to address the black deer. Most people thought this was Dess and I think this is actually caused by fanon brainrot. BLACK DEER? WELL NOELLE IS BROWN SO IT MUST BE DESS RIGHT? Except, we haven't even seen Dess, can you guess why the Deer might be black? dude you can't ask that I'll give you a hint: It's not because she's "goth"
It's because the black monster symbolizes the knight when you remove the literal parental lock humorously referred to as "toriel" in the files you see what's under the helmet. A deer. And what happens in that room? The deer mimics our movements, or rather, we control the deer until we get what we want from it, experience.
"B-B-B-B-BUT THAT CAN'T BE NOELLE, SHE WAS WITH US IN THE PREVOUS LEVELS, WE SAW HER, AND THE SAME PARENTAL LOCK THAT REVEALS THE BLACK DEER REVEALS NOELLE AS A BROWN DEER"
And isn't it just so convenient how Noelle isn't with us on that level of the minigame? It's almost as if the parental lock is there to hide the identity of ONE specific person.
And isn't it such a funny coincidence that level of the minigame happens to line up almost perfectly with Hometown's layout.
And isn't it just. So. Funny. How it seems to foreshadow what happens at the next stage of the weird route? In CH5? When the festival happens?
First you control the brown deer next you control the black deer. What makes you think these are different deer? One is Noelle in her regular dark world form and the other is her in the knight suit? The fact that getting rid of the parental lock reveals who's under the mask and the whole point of the weird route being us asserting more and more control over Noelle makes it more than clear that they are the same.

Why is the parental lock variable called Toriel? When I was a Dess knighter I thought this could mean that Toriel was somehow involved with Dess's disappearance but I think it's simply explained by the fact that all parental locks we see in CH3 are associated with Toriel, we see the shape of Toriel's head as a symbol on the coded doors. This is because Toriel has literal parental locks on Kris's devices. Kris CAN'T goon theory Okay I was just gonna joke about the Kris goon theory but this actually explains why they keep the purple dragon drawing book, BECAUSE THEIR PHONE HAS A PARENTAL LOCK THAT BLOCKS EXPLICIT CONTENT. It makes too much sense lmao.

Also, the pippins talking about how no one will shed a tear for Ramb. He was actually talking about you dude, yeah he said yousa bitch. You're the one who's stone inside, if you do the weird route that is.

The chapter continues usual...
TV World comes crashing down and Tenna decides to end the show with one final battle, the gang wins we get a cute cutscene about Kris and Noelle's families falling apart after Dess disappears and Tenna then proceeds hand Toriel over to the gang, this violates the contract and the knight immediately cleaves him red by blade as foretold.
The knight then seemingly tries to grab Toriel with some sort of beam (which I've come to believe is a flashlight) before Susie stops her. Of course Susie isn't going to let the knight hurt Toriel, duh.
The knight fights the fuck gang, proceeds to kick their ass unless you're cracked like me and no hit the knight in which case Kris signals the knight to wrap it up.
Before I move on I want to draw attention to Susie's lines:

  • [Susie]: Heheh...
  • [Susie]: Didn't... think we'd still be standing, did you?
  • [Susie]: Thing is, you actually..
  • [Susie]: You actually messed up, picking a fight with US!
  • [Susie]: You? You're all alone...
  • [Susie]: Me? I got... Kris and Ralsei behind me.
  • [Susie]: Even... even if you knock me down...
  • [Susie]: As long as Kris, Ralsei, are here...
  • [Susie]: As long as Kris has got a hand to lift me up with...
  • [Susie]: Heh... you're never gonna win, you hear me?!
  • [Susie]: You know you can't win... so... give up!
  • [Susie]: ... You won't even..
  • [Susie]: ... say a thing, huh...
  • [Susie]: ... heh ... heheheh...
  • [Susie]: Man, I'm done talking,
  • [Susie]: ... people like you... just piss me off.

To the untrained eye, this might seem like Susie just shit talking. But think about it. Do you really think there's no deeper meaning here?
Who would be hurt most by these words?
Carol? She doesn't give a shit. Dess? She would have to conscious to hear these, yes pointing out that she's alone could hurt her, presumably but there's no inherent connection between Susie's lines with her character.
Now imagine Susie saying these directly TO Noelle.
Can you imagine how deep it would cut to hear the girl she loves tell her she's all alone? That she should give up, and that she pisses her off?
Worst part is, Noelle IS alone. That's why it hurts so much. And it's the cherry on top to hear it all from Susie. If it were me I'd bring the roaring right there bro.

Then we're forced into a cutscene where the knight swoons Susie, this shocks Ralsei. I already went over why this was so surprising to him. Then she turns Ralsei into a ball of fluff before moving on to Kris.
"..."
"Tag, you're it."
The knight's whisper took gave Kris goosebumps, suddenly their headache cleared up and the snow was gone.
In that moment, Kris felt almost like they saw through the knight's helmet.
Isn't it so weird to be caught up on serious business like this? Why are we the ones to save the worlds?
We're just kids, it feels like just yesterday we were playing tag where the forest would grow.
"Kris? A-are you okay? D-Did I hurt you?"
Kris kneeled in silence.
"K-Kris? I'm sorry."
"..."
"!!!"
Kris suddenly jumped and tagged Noelle with a smirk, got 'em again.
"Kris! You know I hate it when you do that fahaha"
The north wind blew fiercely, washing away childhood memories like a river made of the bitter tears of a fallen star, like a broken promise.
The knight once again reached out to Toriel. Despite her injuries, Susie grabbed the knight by the heel.
"You can't."
"You can't take her."
It was hardly a conscious act, an act of bravery Susie didn't even need to think to do. She couldn't let harm come to Toriel no matter what.
Spears rained down from atop the sky like cold water falling. The knight quickly dodged the attacks and turned her gaze upon Undyne who finally reached the scene, then she simply picked her up and left as Undyne struggled.
SWOON
Susie got back up to her feet, to chase after them. She stumbled in the dark looking for the door before finally opening it. Upon seeing that someone is running away from the house, Susie grabbed Kris by the hand and ran to the shelter, the steel doors shut just as they reached it.
Susie hit the shelter door again and again to no avail until she knocked off a panel hiding some sort of digital lock.

  • HEY! HEY OPEN UP!
  • Undyne...! Officer Undyne, say something!!
  • H-hey... hey, this is a joke, right!?
  • You're about to come out of there, right!?
  • ...
  • What the... what the hell is this?
  • It's some sort of... electronic... lock?
  • Kris, what the hell is going on...!?
  • Why... why did they take Undyne in here?
  • And... why were they trying to take... Toriel?
  • What the hell are they doing, Kris? Like, if the cops...
  • ...
  • It's no good... the door, it's solid steel...
  • This... weird panel. If we could just... get someone to tell us how it works...
  • But... we can't, right?
  • We can't tell anyone about this, right? Because...
  • ... Because you saw that smoke, right, Kris?
  • There's... gotta be a dark world in there.
  • ... if anybody else went in there, they'd...
  • ...
  • Toriel...! She's still in the...
  • ...
  • Damn it. I... I hate to give up here, Kris, but...
  • I...
  • ...
  • Let's... just go seal that fountain.
  • (On the shelter was a strange panel.)
  • (It looked like a digital security lock...)
  • (There were three entry fields, and three symbols besides them.)
  • (One had a pine tree beside it.)
  • (One had an officer's badge beside it.)
  • (And one had the DELTA RUNE.)
  • (...)
    Before moving on I want to address some things about this scene, first of all, the knight's performance successfully got Susie to fixate on Toriel and Undyne. As I already mentioned, Toriel was never the target, the reason why she was a main "prize" in the chapter at all was to keep Susie focused, she's not there for the knight she's there for you and Susie.
    What's funny is that the whole beam thing probably wasn't even meant to work, Noelle just put shined her flashlight on Toriel and Susie freaked out lmao. It's also hilarious that the only thing that could turn into Undyne's "spears" are her bullets which means Undyne walked into a house full of kids and a sleeping old lady and her first instinct was to immediately magdump her .67mm, cops amirite.
    ...
    Susie walks home without waiting for Kris.
    The bunker door slowly opens.
    ...

(THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE THEORY)

Kris walks inside to see the knight, Carol and Undyne. The knight must have swooned Undyne on her way out the house, there's no way they could have carried this beast all the way here if she was struggling.
"Dear, please take care of her."
The knight takes off her helmet, Noelle's eyes meet Kris's before quickly locking back to the task at hand.
She takes a deep breath and casts a powerful spell to freeze Undyne.
Noelle doesn't collapse after this, but it's clear that she... Wants to go home.
"Well done candy cane, now that the police force is out of the picture..."
"That leaves us with only one last problem..."
Noelle looks... out of it.
Carol doesn't find it necessary to continue with talking at this time.
"Kris, you better go seal that fountain now. Be a dear and take Noelle home on your way."
Noelle doesn't say a word as Kris takes her by the hand. They quickly peep the streets to make sure Susie isn't around then pass through the front gate, already unlocked, into the Holiday house.
When Kris brought Noelle home, she simply stood, almost as if she didn't even see anything. All she could see was snow, a blizzard when she closed her eyes and an endless monochrome migraine when she opened them. Kris knew they had to leave but couldn't bring themselves to.
Noelle went out to the porch with a blank expression, Kris followed behind.
The cold wind licking at Noelle's fur made the relentless blizzard all the more real. She was terrified.
Kris put their hand on Noelle's shoulder.
Noelle froze.
"Sorry for being weird at the hospital, Noelle."
"It was all a stupid prank."
"Berdly is going to get better."
Kris put the watch they took from Noelle back on her wrist.
Kris's weak, shaky but genuine voice brought Noelle back to her senses. She felt like it had been so long since she last heard it. She started sniffling.
"Kris, Kris, you're back!"
(IF YOU ARE ON THE WEIRD ROUTE)
Kris pulled a thorn out of Noelle's finger.
"Noelle, when you see me again, don't mention any of this or... It will be heard."
"..."
Kris knows they are running out of time.
"I want to protect you."
Without waiting for a response, or even a reaction, Kris bolts off to seal the fountain.
...
Susie goes back inside the dark world and is at least a little bit relieved to see Toriel still sleeping soundly. Ralsei is standing next to Tenna's remains, talking to some darkners.
"Ralsei, are you okay?" Susie realizes she forgot about Ralsei, she was too focused on catching the knight.
"Yes, I am fine, thank you Susie."
"Did you..."
"Did you confront h-"
"The knight?"
Susie sighs.
"No... They went into the shelter, we couldn't get in..."
"Ralsei, we need to find a way to get in there."
Their conversation is cut off by the pippins asking for their help, they need a lightner to fix Tenna.
Susie proceeds to follow their instructions until Kris finally comes home.
"Kris! What took you so long?"
Kris doesn't respond.
"..."
"Let's just seal the fountain already."

Before moving on to CH4 I want to underline that what happened with Kris and Noelle between CH3 and 4 is the single biggest problem Noelle knight faced. If Noelle was indeed home all day while the knight was in the shelter, that would indeed debunk the theory. However I already explained Noelle's psychology regarding her actions as the knight, in light of that, it makes perfect sense for Kris to have taken Noelle home and bring her back to her senses. Y'know, being with her in the dark as they promised.
All other Noelle knight theories I've seen either miss this point or misremember the scene as happening at the end of CH2, if your theory doesn't account for this, it fails. This scene is the main reason why I'm writing any of this in the first place.
I would also like to mention that the WR scene in CH4 that tells us about this scene was already bugging me as I found it weird for Kris not to immediately go back home after CH3 and even considered that Toby may have made a mistake by not removing the silver watch from our inventories on CH3 instead of 4 but in retrospect all of this adds up perfectly.
If you find my explanation to be a stretch, keep in mind Kris did spend a lot of time visiting Noelle even if we assume she isn't the knight, during that time Susie was busy talking to Ralsei and fixing Tenna which makes sense as to why she didn't get worried about Kris as I would personally find it reasonable that Susie would go out to at least make sure they are fine, as you know, there's a major threat around.
Pretty much the only thing Noelle knight theory adds to this scene is Kris taking Noelle home instead of visiting her, this adds up with Noelle's psychological behavior AND is supported by the WR scene in CH4, how? It's the first time we see Noelle's mental defense mechanism fail, she tries again and again to rationalize the events as a dream, as a prank but we keep pushing and pushing until all the snow clears away. None of this is a coincidence, Toby intended for you to connect the dots, CH2 and 3 set up and explain how her trauma response works and even puts you through the same process specifically so you can see it fail and crumble away in Noelle's eyes.
And what does she say when it happens?
When the truth, the promise in our hearts is broken.
"Thank you." - #39

CHAPTER 4

"The knight."
"The Roaring Knight"
"The one who's making the dark."
"The one who's trying to destroy the world..."
"... so that's our enemy."
"Up until today..."
"It felt king of like no matter how serious our adventures got..."
"They were just part of another world."
"But now... someone's taken Undyne... into the shelter."
"The real shelter."
"Kris... we have to do something, before she's..."
"There's no point talking about it."
Kris stares blankly into the fountain.
"Kris! Hurry up and seal the fountain!"
"It's time to wake up..."
"Kris, are you listening?"
"It's time to..."

Susie and Kris wake up, have yummy butterscotch pancakes then go to church.
We get important information about the prophecy during the sermon but we don't need to go into detail on that.
Kris falls asleep then is waken up by Susie to have some bangin' juice then they "split" to get to the bottom of this juice I mean mystery.
This part is extremely important for the theory, if Noelle is the knight she must have some information on the shelter, can you think of anyone else who thinks so? Kris. This is why Noelle is the ONLY person in the church (other than Rudy, but I already addressed why that is) to NOT get dialogue options that are not directly related to the shelter. EVERYONE else at church, even one liners where you don't get multiple choices get asked something DIRECTLY related to the shelter, if you don't believe me go check and see for yourself.
This is because Kris is the one giving us those options so of course they give plausible deniability to the person they want to protect the secret identity of, Kris's extremely suspicious behavior here, their focusing and singling out Noelle, is EXACTLY what you're meant to pick on, it's Kris's biggest mistake, exposing their plan by overcorrecting. Notice how they also bring up Asgore whenever they can, Kris wants our suspicion divided on as many different people as possible so it can stay off Noelle, judging from the community's theories, this worked.
Also notice how there are only 2 people you need to talk to in order to get through this scene, those 2 being Noelle and Alphys. Alphys doesn't even give us a good answer and we end up going to Noelle's house which means Alphys literally doesn't know ANYTHING about the shelter but tells us she's seen Carol and Undyne go there before, Undyne is iced which only leaves Carol to investigate, that points us back to Noelle as we can only do that by going to Noelle's house.
We can deduce Noelle is the knight from this scene alone ignoring everything else in the game. If the only piece of information you had was the fact that Kris is hiding the knight's true identity and you had nothing but this scene to make a guess, you would immediately pick Noelle from basic logical reasoning and I can't stress this enough. Thought experiments like this are conducted in Logic 101 courses. CH4 church scene is a logic puzzle to point your attention to Noelle and it's 2nd layer is exposing ONCE AGAIN that Kris is working AGAINST you. How could the game make this any clearer? Does Kris have to take you out of their chest and beat you with a hockey stick? Throw you into trash and kick the fuck out of you? Is that what it takes for you to finally get it? Oh wait- the game LITERALLY DOES THAT.

  • So the only two leads we got are...
  • Undyne... and the mayor, huh.
  • ... I guess if we think about the 3 symbols on the shelter...
  • ... That pretty much tracks.
  • One looked like the church symbol.
  • Don't got that code yet, but it could be here.
  • One looked like the badge the cops wear.
  • ... So Undyne probably knew something, too.
  • One looked like a pine tree, and the mayor...
  • Likes trees, right? I mean, there's one in City Hall.
  • ...
  • Maybe... Maybe that's why the Knight captured Undyne?
  • They wanted to take their code so they could get in...
  • ... But in that case...
  • They'd have to know the other two codes, too.
  • Someone who goes to church... who knows the mayor...
  • Who also has something to do with the cops?
  • ... Who the hell could that be?
  • ...
  • ... Guess... City Hall's our best bet for now.
  • ... what? Noelle said... her mom keeps everything important at home?
  • ... Yeah... wait, now that I think about it...
  • The mayor's Noelle's mom, right?
  • And the front of their house... it's got pine trees all over.
  • Kinda like the holidays just got frozen in place.
  • Maybe if we can sneak in there ourselves...
  • We might be able to find a clue in there?
  • ... I got an idea.
    Susie asks Noelle to go to her house, of course she accepts, although she hesitates because Carol absolutely doesn't want Susie anywhere near Noelle but it's an opportunity she can't miss.
    After this, we leave the church alongside Toriel, Noelle and Rudy. Noelle probably took Rudy to the hospital then went home to wait for us. She couldn't know how much time we would spend with her so I assume Noelle wasn't planning on going back to church for choir practice unlike Toriel, however this doesn't mean she doesn't know when it starts and ends. This is all important to keep in mind because we have what many players think is a logistical problem coming up later.
    From this point you can either spend time in the town or go straight to Noelle's house, you get a cute scene if you go to the diner with Susie while Noelle waits for you.
    We go inside and look for clues, what's interesting here is that Noelle tells us Dess's room is closed for visitors but Kris can go in as they please and later when Susie and Noelle go inside Noelle doesn't really mind. This means Carol specifically told Noelle to not let anyone in other than Kris, mainly because Noelle's code is in Dess's guitar.
    Before I talk about Dess's room I want to draw attention to the fact that the house is explicitly shown to have a backdoor Kris knows about plus another door in the kitchen that could lead outside.
    Dess's room tells us a lot about her character, she's a creative person that makes up her own stories and she's into sports, and weed. The first thing to catch here is that Dess seems to have lots and lots of hobbies she quickly drops for something else, she picks up a violin then drops it for a guitar, she picks up hockey then drops it for baseball and Carol simply buys her new stuff. Despite having a strict mom she's clearly a punk. She seems to like stars, like Asriel she has stars on her wall. I can imagine they decided to decorate their rooms with stars together. There's a black poster of a sword/knife on her closet, very very interesting. Dess seems not to care much about the wellbeing of objects too much as Carol just buys her new stuff anyway. Overall Dess seems to be a cool, creative, athletic, rebellious punk who likes sports and music.
    When we try to take the code taped inside the guitar, Kris pulls us out of their chest and throws us inside a box, then we vent (heh) and explore around the house while Kris is busy drinking chocy milk. Very wise of them to leave us to wander around. This is Kris's second big mistake.
    The mistake here isn't letting us look for clues on the knight's identity. It's them trying to paint 2 different people as the knight at the same time. Kris could very well not let us into Dess's room, they did it on purpose. We see Kris prevent us from entering rooms even when they are unlocked. I don't think it was Carol's plan to let us get the guitar but it certainly was Kris's. Kris wanted us to get the guitar after a struggle so they could call Carol. This may have led to a small change in Carol's plans as she seems to want Susie gone which means she wouldn't have planned for Susie to get the guitar unless she's playing 5D chess I'm inclined to believe it was Kris getting Carol to slightly change her plan while painting her as the knight thus killing 2 birds with one stone. Once again suspicion is off Noelle and we're divided between Noelle and Carol.
    Dess's room does contain symbolism that suggests she could be the knight, which is exactly why Kris wants you to see it.
    Carol's house does contain symbolism that suggests she could be the knight, which is exactly why Kris wants you to see it.
    And there it is, by trying to paint 2 different people as the knight Kris made the same mistake they made at church. This is the EXACT SAME logic puzzle we had at church and if you were given nothing but this scene, the looks of the roaring knight and the fact that Kris is working against you, you could follow basic logical deduction to conclude that Noelle is the knight.
    In both scenes Kris divides your attention on EVERYONE ELSE BUT NOELLE so you don't suspect her. You are given the EXACT SAME PUZZLE TWICE.
    I can't stress this enough, both puzzles follow the same structure. The most basic structure of a logic puzzle.
    The game literally beats you with a stick and kicks you in the face until you get it. Do you want Noelle to look at you dead in the eyes and say "I AM THE ROARING KNIGHT!" even then Dess knighters would find a way to make it about Dess I swear to God.
    Someone (Carol) calls Kris while they chug their chocy milk to talk about dark fountains and sacrifice and presumably how Kris has to have the soul in the context of dark worlds and how Susie MUST NOT GET THE GUITAR. It doesn't make sense for the caller to be anyone other than Carol HOWEVER this doesn't mean no one else can ever call Kris on the phone. The reason they sound so spooky and cut off is because... WE DON'T GET TO HEAR THE WHOLE THING? HELLO? People point to the spiky black textbox to say this is THE KNIGHT TALKING TO KRIS!!! I really don't want to be rude but man, I can't hold your hand through every single word, letter and dot in the game, please put 2 and 2 together. Later, at the end of the chapter if you're on WR we see that the caller is Carol because Kris has the phone up to their ear and more importantly, THEY NO LONGER HAVE TO ACTIVELY HIDE WHO THE CALLER IS. Now contrast this with the normal ending where Kris doesn't pick up the phone, we get the same cut off speech. This is because at the end of the normal CH4, the caller is Noelle, I already explained why but I will go through the scene again at the end of this section.
    After a cute scene where we possess an Angel doll while Susie talks with Noelle about Blood Crushers and the severed hand we find Dess's room already open, this is because Kris knew we would go there anyway so they hid under the bed (as humans do) to catch us. Kris proceeds to beat our ass in the closet while Noelle and Susie make out on Dess's bed. Suddenly it's all fine and dandy for the visitors to go in her room I guess.
    Kris loses it when we reach the guitar which leads to them making too much noise by hitting the guitar, Susie opens the closet, grabs the guitar and tells Kris to shut the fuck up.
    Kris calls Carol to tell her Susie got the guitar, she tells Kris she will be right there.
    Susie and Noelle continue making out on the living room couch until Asgore's fat ass interrupts them to eat all the snacks and also tells them Carol is about to come in, Noelle freaks out. Carol kicks everyone out, tells Noelle to go into the kitchen to get a scolding and presumably mutters a homophobic slur in the process. Susie tells Carol she's taking her to the festival before leaving. Before we leave Carol puts her hand on our shoulder and says:

YOU

are always welcome.
Most players assume that the (you) there refers to (us) and not Kris, it's written in big, bold red letters after all and we know Carol knows about the soul and is also fixated on heart shaped objects.
However, I don't think she's referring to (us) but rather, us. As in, the soul AND Kris.
Carol doesn't see Kris as Kris and you as you. You are a tool and she couldn't give less of a shit about Kris's personal identity. As far as she's concerned, Kris controlled by us IS Kris.
This works perfectly with her character and also explains why she's so happy about us forcing Kris to get closer to Noelle on the WR even though WR is about us taking control of Noelle AWAY from Carol.
She doesn't care about identities of Kris OR Noelle, she knows what's best for all these stupid kids and now she has this little genie that's controlling Kris to seemingly do her bidding.
Carol doesn't know about our true motives. We don't know how much she knows. Hell, she might even know that we went through Undertale, she could know THAT much but she ultimately doesn't know our truest motives and as far as she's concerned, that doesn't matter. Everything is going according to plan minus that one hiccup with Susie, that damn dinosaur, maybe it's about time she gets rid of her...
This actually parallels Carol and Susie.
The only Kris she knows is Kris PLUS us. Kris even wonders if Susie would even recognize her if "they switched to a different fruit (scented shampoo)"
So far Susie's been the story's main device for giving us reliable information or at least drawing our attention to the right places. Susie thinks she doesn't know anything and yet she's the one teaching us everything.
Carol thinks she knows everything and yet she doesn't know the first thing about us or Kris or even Noelle.
This even ties back to the Delta Rune in Undertale if we assume Carol is the angel of death and Susie is the angel of... pacifism? Monsters would be Noelle in this case.
Susie is the one who will give Noelle the freedom she seeks. But she can't because the prophecy can't be changed no matter how much you shake the glass. Ralsei knows this so his best bet is making sure everyone is as nice as possible while they get there.
But stories can be retold.
I believe this is what both Susie AND Carol are doing. Carol is carefully orchestrating all the events so everyone falls into the proper roles to achieve her goals while also not defying the prophecy.
Susie is doing what's right, she doesn't care about the roles. She really likes the idea of being the hero foretold by prophecy but it wasn't a desire for importance that led her down that path, it was her bravery. She saw a ditch and the only thing she could think of was jumping in, which is exactly what she needed to do.

"Well, that was awkward."
Susie suddenly remembered she forgot to get the code.
"Kris we forgot about the code!"
"Damn, it's all her fault!"
Asgore then comforts Kris, telling them "not to worry too much about things" this is weak evidence but if Asgore did hear the word code, he might not know much about the bunker after all, I can't imagine him lying in this case. To me this sounds like Asgore heard the kids talk about some things that were just "kid stuff" to him. Not too important of a point but it's worth talking about.
"So what are you two up to now?" Asgore asks what they are going to do next.
Susie says:

GONNA GO BACK TO KRIS'S HOUSE.

This is the single most important point in CH4.
Susie immediately suggests going home. Now before we continue I want to point out that if we try to go back inside after Susie's done yapping Susie stops us saying Carol is "totally watching us through the window."
Now we don't know if Susie meant this literally, as in based on observation instead of suspicion but if she did in fact see Carol in the window this straight up confirms Noelle is done receiving her scolding and is now free to move freely.
If she said it based on suspicion, this still doesn't rule out the fact Carol very well may have sent Noelle to open the church fountain as early as we make it outside.

The gang have a snack break then skedaddle, before we leave, Susie stops us again to yap without Asgore hearing us. Then we pass through the gate and Susie stops us AGAIN to tell us we should go HOME as it starts to rain. Umm? Susie? I thought we were already going home? Why did you feel it so necessary to say it twice? HMMM Almost as if the game is pointing us towards something. No matter, we don't care, we're heading straight to church because we already know where the next fountain will be, we have no time to waste going home. We bolt down the street then guess what happens. Susise stops us AGAIN this time telling us to go to school so we can hang out with Ralsei.
If you didn't quite catch that, the game interrupts you multiple times to get you to explore as much as you can before going to church, Susie won't bother you again after this but there's a lot of optional content to explore before you go to church, the game wants you to spend as much time as possible. However, we have no time to waste. Shut the fuck up Susie, Ralsei can go burn in hell we're going to the church NOW.
We make it to the church and there's already a dark fountain here.

This is precisely the reason why Dess knighters have been ruling out Carol knight while Carol knighters fight tooth and nail explaining how it's completely possible she made it to the church before the fun gang.
First of all, we immediately see that Noelle has the best logistical case here. If we assume Noelle went outside through the back door, she doesn't even need to take a secret shortcut or a tunnel to the church, she has plenty of time as she gets a huge head start even if we assume the gang head straight to church. Carol knight isn't exactly ruled out by this either, it's not a stretch at all to think there's a shortcut through the woods. We already know the holiday house is huge and it has multiple entrances and exits. How do you think Kris broke Noelle back in so many times? Why else would we see 2 possible extra exits out the house? One of them is even explicitly stated as an exit. I wouldn't argue for this but it's not illogical for Carol to have a tunnel either, I think it's a stretch but it's not ridiculous. Personally I just can't see this serious, composed old lady sprinting at the church to beat some kids in a race but I wouldn't use this as definitive proof against Carol knight either.
All things considered, Noelle once again has the best logistical case for being the knight. She's also a part of the choir so she knows when practice ends. It's perfectly possible for Kris and Carol to time everything in a way Noelle would open the church without anyone else falling into it.
To add on to all of this, time isn't really an issue at all for this scene, time passes when it needs to and you're clearly meant to spend time outside before going to church. So Noelle knight makes most sense even if you don't give it the benefit of the doubt, even in the worst, crunchiest, tightest scenario Noelle is more than capable of making it to the church before the gang.
Man, the only possible thing that could give Noelle more proof in this case would be if she were stated to be a member of the school's cross country team... Wait.
...
"Noelle."
"I told you not to get attached to that..."
"Girl."
Noelle felt the need to apologize but couldn't decide if she was supposed to talk or not.
"You already know what I want you to do."
Noelle looked at her mom in anguish.
"Get rid of her already."
Noelle felt a migraine coming on.

Before I to the part where the gang enter the dark world, I want to address the weird route scene as well.

On the weird route, instead of Kris leaving Susie and Noelle alone, it's Susie that goes to search for clues.
Kris throws us out to privately talk with Noelle.
Noelle mentions how she's been waiting for a chance to talk alone with Kris:

  • To be honest, I've kind of been waiting for...
  • A chance for us to be alone all day.
  • ...
  • There's... something I want to talk to you about, Kris.
  • ...
  • I want to talk to you about...
  • ... last night.
  • Last night, I... I couldn't sleep.
  • Every time I closed my eyes...
  • All I could see was snow.
  • I was terrified, Kris.
  • Terrified it was all real.
  • I went out on the porch to breathe, and...
  • That's when I felt it.
  • A hand on my wrist.
  • I froze.
  • And then I heard your voice.
  • Kris's voice.
  • You said, sorry for taking your watch, Noelle.
  • You said, it was all a stupid prank.
  • You said, Berdly is going to get better.
  • And you put the watch back on my wrist.
  • That's when I felt it.
  • A hand on my shoulder.
  • I froze.
  • And then I heard your voice.
  • Kris's voice.
  • You said, sorry for being weird at the hospital, Noelle.
  • You said, sorry for being weird yesterday, Noelle.
  • You said, it was all a stupid prank.
  • You said, Berdly was going to get better.
  • ... Kris, your voice, your deadpan, mumbly voice...
  • Even if you sounded kind of weak and shaky...
  • I don't know why, but it felt so long since I heard it.
  • I even started sniffling! Haha!
  • Kris, Kris, you're back...!
  • Kris, thank you... well, NO thanks for pranking me, but...
  • ... Kris, can I... say something else?
    A chill goes down Kris's spine, all they can say is:
    Please don'troceed
    The player makes its way back inside.
  • K... Kris!? Kris, what are you...
  • ...
  • (... I guess... I guess I shouldn't.)
  • (I mean, I know you didn't say anything, but...)
  • (I guess let's just leave it at...)
  • (I'm glad you're back.)
  • ...
  • Kris...
  • Kris, there... there was something else you did.
  • Something else... I have to ask you about.
  • After you said all of that... you...
  • Took my hand... and...
  • Pulled... a thorn out of my finger.
  • Then you said...
  • You said... you said that when I saw you again...
  • You said... not to mention you did any of this... or...
  • ?
  • Kris, it's okay! It's just us!
  • You just said not to mention any of that...
  • Because it'd get... heard.
  • ... Kris... Kris, it's okay, it's just us.
  • Who's going to hear?

ME

  • Kris...?
  • K... Kris, your voice... it...
  • Ha... ha... Kris, that's... another joke, right...?
  • (That voice... how... the voice from my dream...
  • S... Sorry, Kris... What did you say? I must have misheard you.
  • (No... there's no way they... they heard...)
  • (There's no way they heard... my thoughts.)
  • W... What are you talking about, Kris?
  • I... I didn't say anything!
  • (It's impossible. That's impossible.)
  • (It's just a coincidence.)
  • (If you can... hear me...)
  • (Say "red" or "blue".)
  • (Say... "green" or "black".)
  • (Say... say... "it didn't happen." Say "it didn't snow.")
  • (You're... lying. You're lying.)
  • K... Kris? Kris, what did you say?
  • K... Kris? Kris, what is that?
  • Kris... that's... not the thorn, is it?
  • That's not... the... ThornRing, is it...?
  • K... Kris... c'mon... you... you still...
  • What about... what about last night? What about...
  • Didn't you... want to... protect me...?
  • (Why... can't... I... move?)
  • (Why... can't I... look... away?)
  • (NOELLE, DO SOMETHING!!!)
  • Kris, I really think I
  • I mean I just
  • I think I need to
  • G-gosh, I think I have to
    Equip
  • ... K... Kris?

I won't spend too much time on this scene because I already went over it on CH3 but what I want you to get here is how we see Noelle go through her rationalizing process. She keeps rejecting the fact again and again even when you PROVE you can read her mind MULTIPLE TIMES. In fact she refuses to believe us up until we force the thorn ring on her.
We see her go through her trauma response and fail in real time. Another thing to note here is that Noelle was actually doing quite fine after CH2 so her lines about wanting to talk to us all day about what happened yesterday PROBABLY aren't JUST about Kris bringing her watch back, keep in mind that's not a WR exclusive scene. Kris brings Noelle home in both routes and gives back the watch if you have it, as well as telling her everything was a prank. Knowing everything we know about Noelle, I'm inclined to think Kris paying Noelle a visit to apologize wouldn't cause her to crash out and cry in her bed all night. She was clearly bothered by more.
I think she was crumbling under the weight of everything she's forced to suppress, she literally falls apart at the seams in front of our eyes in this scene. Of course, you could just dismiss this but my main takeaway here still stands. This was her attempt at her usual mental process and we forced her to fail.

After this scene, Kris proceeds to beat the shit out of us in a trash can. This actually lowers our HP and if Asgore didn't stop them I like to think Kris was fully intending to kill us.
We leave as ordered by Carol, Asgore gives us hot chocolate and tells us to go home if we aren't feeling our best.
Susie quickly stops us to yap about not getting the code again. The chapter mostly continues as normal and there's nothing much else going on except Susie stops us again to ask what we were talking about. This actually causes Kris to get an aneurysm in their attempt at not giving us options to the point where we momentarily see the rain stop.
Note how Susie yaps enough in both scenarios to give Noelle enough time to open the fountain even if we head straight to church.

...

Noelle enters the church, there's no one inside. She can barely even see through the visual snow. No time to set up traps, she needs make the fountain now. But if she does, she will have to kill Susie, she could never do that. If only, if only there was a way out of this, if only there was someone who could show her the way.
She gets an idea.
Noelle rushes inside Alvin's office and frantically goes through the drawers.
There it is. Gerson Boom's hammer buried in his ash. Noelle loved reading Lord of the Hammer growing up and she plays Dragon Blazers religiously to this day. If everything is a game after all, he would be the only one to find a way out of this. If it's not a video game... Then she needs his help all the more.
Noelle placed a piece of glass inside the drawer alongside a prayer.

...
Kris and Susie enter the dark world, it doesn't take long at all for them to find the fountain, they also find the knight. The knight separates Susie and Kris by destroying some stairs, Susie tells Kris to chase after the knight. If you manage to make it to the knight, Kris refuses to attack, this confuses Susie and then the knight sends both of them falling with a powerful attack.
The chapter proceeds as normal.
Things I want to draw attention to here are the fact Gerson tells Susie that she's the dragon. Don't forget that. And the fact that Gerson refused to use the shadow crystal.

  • And... take this, too.
  • For some reason, I found this weird piece-a glass in my desk.
  • Felt like someone really wanted me to use this thing.
  • But it didn't interest me, so you can take it.
    Noelle gave the shadow crystal to Gerson, seeking a lesson.
    Gerson gave Noelle the lesson she needed by not using the crystal.

I also want to mention that it was probably Noelle working at the church who put Jackenstein in the closet to be used for the festival later. Susie points out how he must be a Halloween decoration. Here's how I think that probably went:

Noelle brought various Halloween decorations and placed them in the closet for later use.
Finally she picked up the heavy pumpkin to place in the closet. It was a real, rotting pumpkin. Noelle's eye caught the maggot crawling inside.
"Eek! Yuck!"
Noelle shut the closet with a shudder.
This event traumatized Jack, making him feel so ugly and scary and unwanted and worthless that he decided it's best for everyone for him to stay in the dark forever. So sad.
Assuming it was an event similar to this that caused Jack to be the way he is, it again makes perfect sense for the fountain to be made by Noelle.
I'm inclined to believe this fountain was made primarily made out of subconscious influence like CH2 unlike CH1 and CH3 fountains that were made for a specific purpose. The only darkner created with focus was Gerson which also explains why he was such a major character not only from a story perspective but an in universe dark world perspective as well.

Nothing much interesting of note until Susie makes her fountain. Now the prophecy needs its own whole theory and I won't go too much into detail because I already assume you're familiar with it but what's important to keep in mind is, EVERY PANEL THAT'S ABOUT THE HEROES WE SEE ARE IN SUSIE'S DARK WORLD.
This means we are getting Susie's interpretation, of course when she reads "the girl" she immediately thinks of herself. Initially I assumed "the girl" was indeed Susie because we see rude buster and the sprite is literally name rude_buster but it's SUSIE'S INTERPRETATION.
Now this also doesn't mean that the roles can fit multiple people or even change as time goes on, almost every prophecy panel is open to interpretation specifically for this reason. It's how every party who want to control the future operate, they all move within the confines of the prophecy, as long as their actions fit what's said, everything is game. Noelle is the knight but she can be the girl, the Angel or fuck it even the cage with human soul and parts.

Susie's dark world is a complete parallel of Noelle's dark world, the color is different and a lot of things just don't make sense.
The main reason for this is, Susie's will isn't aligned with Noelle's, as in Susie doesn't have the same subconscious context Noelle had when she created the church dark world, and Susie is inexperienced with the sort of roleplaying and story telling creating a dark world requires.
But it doesn't end here. Remember how I believe that the last prophecy puts Noelle and Susie on opposite sides, now wouldn't it be funny if a dark world directly linked to the prophecy created by Susie wasn't just "off" but a DIRECT parallel to Noelle's dark world? Not to toot my own horn but once again, it's just so poetic.
The gang then fights an evil version of Gerson. Here's where I want to clear some things up. That isn't a corrupted Gerson's dustner, the dustner doesn't show up at all in Susie's dark world. Upon seeing Gerson's remains Susie says "The dark world must have somehow revived him" She went into the dark world already expecting to see him, she wasn't consciously using the hammer to create him as a darkner unlike Noelle. This should also point your attention what really was taken into focus while creating the dark world. Ralsei mentions how dustners appear in very specific dark worlds, as in dark worlds where the dustner is a main focus. Not to go off in a tangent but I also think this means we will see another dustner in the future, I think it might turn out to be Seam, that would be cool.

After a big adventure the gang is attacked by the knight and they have a cute bonding scene where they all take hits for each other just like how Susie said in the knight fight then we finally reach the knight who's floating in air above a hole, she seems to be looking for something, or at least she's not fully focused on the gang when we get to her. Susie tries to hit her with a few rude busters but misses.
Susie mentions how we don't need to actually fight the knight but rather get past her and seal the fountain and that she can't stop them in the real world. This causes the knight to laugh which makes Susie nervous.
Now it's not clear why exactly but at this moment the knight decides to summon a titan or even fully unleash the roaring, she could have thought that this was the only way to stop the gang from sealing the fountain, or maybe she was "ragebaited" into it, it's just not clear. But I don't think she intended on either ending the world or killing Susie. Now I'm not 100% if Carol told her to kill Susie for sure but she would definitely want her out of the picture. Noelle may have decided that summoning a titan and running away was the best option she had. No matter what pushed her, I'm sure she was trying to find a way to NOT kill Susie.
Think about it, who gets what from the CH4 fountain? The gang don't catch the knight and the knight doesn't cause the roaring. What actually changed in terms of the chess game going on here?
The key here is Gerson, Noelle looked to him for answers and the fun gang got it. Stories can be retold and the future can be changed. Susie has the white pen because she has hope crossed on her heart. It's not clear if Noelle learned this lesson or not.
Right before the knight summons the titan Ralsei once again tries to beg her for mercy, this only works if the person under the knight's helmet is actually a good person.

The knight opens another fountain, it turns into a titan and the gang defeat it with Gerson's help. In fact, they can't do anything until Gerson gives them what they need. Susie and Kris jump into the titan and use the soul to destroy the titan. I want to point out that this may have been what Carol was referring to in her cut off call. Something like "Without the soul Kris can't... Destroy the titan" this would also mean summoning and defeating a titan was also a part of the plan and maybe I'm speculating too much with the killing Susie part. I can't imagine Carol would directly order Noelle to kill Susie anyway, she may like to, but it would probably be better to ice her like Undyne. Although, the police force is basically over now so she could probably get away with murder. Also, imagine how Alvin will feel when he finds his church in ruins and a note from his dead dad, he will probably immediately go to the polic- oh.

Before they seal the fountain, Susie rushes ahead before Ralsei can destroy the final panel of the prophecy and gets spoiled, this causes her to break the final panel before we can see it.
She then talks about how we wouldn't allow that to happen, putting emphasis on Ralsei. Again, I'm not 100% sure what the final prophecy is but it's most likely something that puts Noelle and Susie on opposite ends and involves someone's death. It could be that they will have to let Ralsei die or accept never seeing him again, since we see Susie put emphasis on Ralsei when she says he wouldn't let it happen but he would totally let those things happen in a heartbeat to protect Kris and Susie. I like to think while Ralsei and Susie were hanging out together without us in CH2, Ralsei made a similar promise to Susie as Kris did to Noelle, also keep in mind at this stage Susie fully thinks she's "the girl" in the prophecy.
My best guess is something along the lines of "The girl will fall to the knight." or maybe fall FOR the knight??? I hope?? Anyways, this isn't a hill I'd die on and I'm sure the reveal will be satisfying no matter what it actually said.

Before we leave the church we can inspect a suspicious door into a room where someone large could fit, we turn the doorknob but do nothing else. Noelle COULD be hiding there but I think it makes more sense for her to have left by now and this is another Kris trick.

We go home and see Sans befriending our mom then we try to sleep.

I want to go back to the "thinking of" scene before addressing the end of the chapter.
Ralsei suggests we should think of Susie so he can go break prophecy panels while we're busy, here we get an option to think of the knight instead.
We see the knight take off her helmet and... THEN WE SEE JOCKINGTON! JOCKINGTON KNIGHT CONFIRMED BABY- I mean Kris tries really hard to think of Jockington breastfeeding temmie to distract us. Funny scene very cool.
But on the weird route we get the option to think of Noelle.
I already mentioned this but it's so important that I must mention it again. Someone brought up this scene as a rebuttal, saying if we get an option for the knight and an option for Noelle and these scenes happen at the same time and aren't the same scene that confirms Noelle isn't the knight.
They are right.
My initial response was that these scenes aren't a live security camera footage Kris is tapping into but are rather there to tell you a story and my claim is that the scenes add up to one scene.
I think my defense was already pretty solid but still, I went back to check.
Believe it or not, if you choose to think of the knight it takes Kris 5 seconds for the dialogue to start.
But if you choose to think of Noelle it takes 10 seconds for dialogue to start.
Noelle's scene is the red dot and her saying "Thank you"
The scenes add up to the knight taking off her helmet and thanking you.
I can't stress this enough. This is such a tiny detail that I would expect the writer to miss it even if it was confirmed to be intentional. It's as if Toby made these scenes with the exact same idea I had in mind and then went out of his way to triple check the time text boxes appear to make sure Noelle's scene accounts for her taking off her helmet.
I went through the game multiple times while writing this theory and I would have never in a million years noticed this incredibly small detail if someone didn't bring it up to try and use it against me.
If this isn't cinema, I don't know what is.
I don't want to drag this for too long even though it almost makes me wanna giggle like a schoolgirl but I need to once again ask you to consider what would happen if Kris DIDN'T distract you when you tried thinking of the knight.
The knight takes off her helmet and it's... Carol.
What changes? What ACTUALLY changes in terms of the player's actions? Nothing
The knight takes off her helmet and it's... Dess.
What changes? What ACTUALLY changes in terms of the player's actions? Nothing
The knight takes off her helmet and it's... Noelle
What changes? What ACTUALLY changes in terms of the player's actions? Everything.
This one reveal flips the whole game on its head, this is why Kris can NEVER EVER let you find out.
...
ring ring

  • Kris... are you there?
  • ... Then, I'll just leave a message.
  • You are going to the festival tomorrow, aren't you?
  • ... I just wanted to confirm.
  • Noelle said...
  • She's really looking forward to seeing you.
    It's the same caller. Carol, this time we can hear her clearly.
    We see the red dot before credits roll.
    That was the ending of CH4WR. Before I move on to the normal ending I wanna draw attention to the idea that Carol might be thrilled by the fact we're forcing Kris and Noelle together not just because she's homophobic but also that will lead Noelle to grow distant to Susie to the degree where she can "eliminate" her as a threat.

On the normal ending, Kris moves to the window after failing to fall asleep. The screen is split in two to show both Kris inside and Susie outside.

  • ...
  • ... We... aren't gonna let that happen...
  • ... right?
    Susie leaves and her side of the screen fades to black. Kris then climbs on the window, seemingly intending to jump off.
    ...
    Kris...
    ...
    don't forget, Kris...
    ...
    you promised.
    Then the credits roll.

I already explained why I think the caller on the normal ending is Noelle. But in case you missed it, the 2 endings also tie Noelle's "Thank you." line to "Don't Forget" remember how Don't Forget's track number is 39.
Once again, it's poetic. It's pottery.

And that's it.
...

SIKE

THERE'S A TWIST IN MY THEORY ABOUT A TWIST.
REMEMBER HOW I TOLD YOU HOW IT WAS ALWAYS THE PLAN TO GET SUSIE IN THE DARK WORLD.
It is. But it's not Carol's plan, I gave you a flawed version of the story. They didn't get Susie into the dark world so she could be the girl or a delta warrior or whatever.
Susie was always meant to be
THE DRAGON
Think about it, there's no mention of a dragon in any of the panels and yet Gerson immediately, without doubt, tells Susie she's the dragon. It wasn't the answer she was expecting but it's an answer she accepts.
Kris is NOT working with Carol, they are working with NOELLE. It was THEIR plan to get Susie into the dark world, add the DRAGON into the prophecy just like Gerson.
Gerson made up the dragon himself, it's his original creation. Kris and Noelle saw the dragon as their way to defy fate and it was working perfectly, everyone in the kingdom was running away in fear as the dragon wreaked havoc on the world.
Until you came along, being all nice to everyone and forcing Susie into the role of the hero.
Ralsei is exactly the same, he was not foreseen either, that's why Noelle doesn't even see anything in the cup when she drinks Ralsei tea.
Ralsei, too is forcing Kris down a certain path. Ralsei, too thinks he knows what's best for everyone.
You, Carol, Ralsei all keep ruining everything because YOU think you can make things better.
The only thing Kris cares about is keeping their promise. And they would have succeeded too if it wasn't for you ruining their plan to make Susie into the dragon.

So if we follow the pacifist route like Ralsei told us, we get a bad ending
If we let Carol's plan unfold, we get a bad ending
If we try to assert control over the knight to shape the future however we want, we get a bad ending.
How do we win?

There's an old saying, when you do everything right it's as if you've done nothing at all.
While I was replaying the game I made new saves in different chapters to skip parts of the game and I realized one interesting thing.
Tenna was all fixed up at the start of CH4. Now it's very easy to kill Tenna in a casual playthrough, this fresh save already had everything go right before I entered the picture. Now, we can tell that the events we already know still happened as we know but consider this.
What if that changes on CH7?
What if the only way to get the best ending is to let Kris do everything their way and only take control in CH7?
Now of course, this isn't really a "theory" I'm entertaining this idea because it's really fun and what led me to this idea was assuming Noelle knight to be true.
I don't actually think this is the case and my suggestion that Kris wanted Susie to be the dragon from the start might be wrong but I just think it's so incredible, the gifts we get from Noelle knight.
This was the missing piece that unlocks the full potential of all future theorycrafting.

Still not convinced?
I don't have any more heavy hitters, sorry. But I think I made a pretty solid case.

Before closing off I want to quickly go through some things about the knight as I can anticipate they will be brought up regardless of everything above:

  • The knight looks like a deer corpse.
    Works for Noelle.
  • The knight looks all fucked up
    Noelle wears a black cloak and a mask when she acts as the knight, this makes her form shapeshift when she moves.
  • The knight can shapeshift
    Noelle wears a black cloak and a mask when she acts as the knight, this makes her form shapeshift when she moves.

Alt Tag

  • The knight's weapon
    The knight uses a bat, sword, thing. Now it DOES look like a bat but it also looks like a sword and it gets a hilt on some attacks so we don't know what exactly it is in the LW. It could be a bat, it could be a sword. It could be a sword made out of shadow crystals. It could be a glass prop.
    However I'm going to suggest something else, it's a flashlight.
    Noelle uses the beam of the flashlight to make shadow puppets, this also ties to the titanspawn, shapeshifting, the knight's attacks, the beam she uses on Toriel and her hand glowing a "strange color"
    Also, when you defeat the knight, you chip her sword and find out it's a shadow crystal.
    Shadow crystals are glass in the light world.
    Flashlights have a glass lens.
    You chipped a piece off the lens.
    Of course, she might not be using a flashlight at all and Noelle knight would still make perfect sense, you could use this same idea for Carol knight as well.
  • The knight turns into a bird
    The bird looks exactly like a shadow puppet of a bird you make with your hands in the light of a flashlight in the dark. Also the cloak
  • The knight does that creepy roaring thing and something pops out of its chest
    It's scary and debunks every "normal lightner" theory, case closed.
    Except what if Noelle is simply shining the flashlight through the chest point of the cloak while roaring? Not that I think I even need to make this case, she could do anything without needing an LW explanation because THEY ARE IN A DARK WORLD, A GAME WHERE SHE'S THE DM. But I think my explanation makes perfect sense and is also cute. She also seems to be mimicking Kris pretending to take out their soul. Cuuuute.
  • The knight mimics Kris
    Can you think of a character where this is a recurring theme? Maybe like a character we... control through Kris... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
  • Dess's room
    Dess's room has a black knife poster and her wallpaper looks like a dark fountain. Case closed.
    Except... Kris wanted you to see all that, this goes back to my explanation in CH4, it's a logic puzzle given to you TWICE and if you failed after the game made you PRACTICE it I don't know what to say. Kris outsmarted you once again. I bet they were the knight in CH1 too. Lmao.
  • The hand pushing you back with a guitar sound
    I think this works just as well for Noelle as it does for Dess especially on the weird route where you don't get to see the guitar too much and you learn about it mostly from Susie. If Noelle is the pine tree in the shelter panel (she is) this would also tie her code, the code inside the guitar, to her, duh.
  • Bubblegum machine
    If you enter 1225 into the bubblegum machine you go into a spooky Yume Nikkiesque room with Lost Girl playing. You find a blue bubblegum machine and if you use it:
  • You used the machine.
  • ...
  • The capsule came out.
  • Inside was something hard like lacquer.
  • It was a small, dark, triangle.
  • You tried to take it...
  • But, it slipped through your hand
  • And you couldn't find it anymore.
  • You couldn't find
  • your hand.
    This is clearly a guitar pick and it's about Dess. But how is it about Dess being the knight? I don't know. It also foreshadows Kris losing their hand but we don't care about that for now.
    CH3's main theme is trauma behind the veil, you go to places in between to find what Kris hid, suppressed from you. The MANTLE minigame, the man country.
    What happens if you enter Noelle's number into the trauma machine? You get Noelle's trauma or at least Kris's part in it.
  • Ice skater moves
    Works for Noelle.
  • DESS MAKES NARRATIVE SENSE!
    Noelle makes even more sense. Dess knight removes Dess's already established narrative role if anything.
    Would Dess knight ruin the story? I don't think so, but at this point I think you miss a good chunk of Noelle's character if you don't think of her as the knight.
    All things considered, no matter how you spin it, Dess knight fails because it has ZERO hard evidence and is complete speculation built upon speculation. People hold onto it either because:
    They missed all the evidence pointing at Noelle
    They think it's a cool idea
    Sunk cost fallacy
    Dess has become a completely different character in the fandom, I've seen people theorize that she's a human, that she got gastered, split up into body and soul, she's a dustner, she's actually possessing people, she's this, she's that, she's you, she's ME
    I kid you not, I've seen MULTIPLE people theorize that Dess is a groomer because they speculate some sort of toxic relationship between her and young Kris.
    Dess knighters will look at you DEAD in the eye and tell you that Dess is a PEDOPHILE before admitting they are wrong.
    This is because the entire fandom jumped on a bandwagon and now you can't even look up the roaring knight without getting endless Dess content shoved down your throat while Noelle isn't even CONSIDERED. I've seen 2 actual proper theory videos and 2-3 genuine posts about being Noelle the knight and the rest of all Noelle knight theory content is nothing but jokes. It's either not brought up or treated as a joke. It's crazy to think there are more Rudy knighters or unironic Papyrus knighters than Noelle knighters.
    Remember Kris knight.
  • TOBY LOVES EARTHBOUND/MOTHER, DESS IS LITERALLY NESS
    This is the funniest part of Dess knight for me. Almost every video or post on Dess knight not only bring up MOTHER but also proceed to make at least half the post about MOTHER.
    Your theory is quite literally worse than Sans is Ness because Matpat had some actually good ideas in there and made a compelling case.
    When all you have is a bat, everything looks like a ball.
  • Holes in hands OMG GASTER
    People point to the knight's hands to say Dess was ZOMG! GASTERED!!
    Who else has holes in his hands?
    JESUS
    HAVE YOU NOT PICKED UP ON THE MESSIANIC SYMBOLISM WITHIN NOELLE YET?
    THE ONLY WAY IT COULD BE ANY MORE CLEAR WAS IF QUEEN CRUCIFIED HER BEFORE OUR EYES
    FOR JESUS'S SAKE, HER NAME IS LITERALLY NOELLE

Alt Tag

  • GASTER GASTER GASTER
    There's a reason I never ONCE appealed to Gaster bullshit in my theory. This is because I don't even believe he will show up AT ALL in the main story. A casual player will be able to play through the whole game without a hint at his existence.
    Why?
    Because it would be spitting in the face of the community that has been working so hard to uncover all his secrets for so long.
    It will be around 2 decades when we get to actually see him for real and if he just, walked on stage and revealed himself saying I AM DR GASTER AND THIS IS WHY I WINGED MY DING, THANKS FOR PLAYING MY DELTARUNES I would actually get the freedom motif in my theme song.
    He's going to be the reward for our curiosity, he HAS to be hidden, he can't simply show up, he can't.
    Also, if you can use Gaster bullshit in your theory, I can use Gaster bullshit in my theory and make a BETTER case than Dess knighters for PAPYRUS KNIGHT because Papyrus is one of the only few characters who know to be DIRECTLY related to Gaster.
    If you're going to say Gaster gastered Dess into being the knight I'll say Gaster gastered Papyrus into being the knight.

I would like to end this theory off by going through the strongest points for this theory once again.

  • Gives the weird route a legitimate reason to try
    This is MASSIVE, no other theory accounts for this and the lack of a legit reason for us to do the weird route is currently THE SINGLE BIGGEST PROBLEM for the story
  • Explains Kris's behavior
    Kris doesn't like us, we got that much, but as I pointed out again and again Kris goes above and beyond and overreacts whenever our attention is on Noelle.
    This ironically leads Kris to single out Noelle as the primary suspect in every situation by diverting our attention literally EVERYWHERE ELSE.
    This also leads Kris into painting multiple different people as the knight, revealing both to NOT be the knight.
    As I said, Kris's actions were the main thing that led me to suspect Noelle knight in the first place.
  • Has actual stakes for the reveal
    If the knight is revealed to be ANYONE other than Noelle, nothing changes for the player, our past and future actions, this ties directly into the weird route. This is why Kris is so deathly afraid of us finding out the identity of the knight even though if they DID slip up and revealed it to be Dess or Carol they wouldn't realistically lose anything.
  • Logistics
    Noelle is the only person who could create the knight fountains. Both through individually and cumulatively, Noelle is consistently the only one who access to every location without risk of suspicion or a roadblock.
    She made the fountain in the unused classroom and dropped her keys in the process, she then shut the door behind us after telling Alphys she was going to check up on us, she returned to class with the box of chalk she took thus the class continued as normal with everyone assuming we skipped school.
    She made the computer lab fountain after Berdly fell asleep
    She made the church fountain after leaving either through the door in the kitchen or the backdoor of her house, in either case she could take the normal route to the church without us seeing her, giving her a head start in any case as Susie constantly slows us by yapping.
    Noelle is a star student in the school's cross country team, she's also a part of the church choir. She has access to and knowledge about all of these locations and would raise NO suspicion and she has been in the immediate presence of every fountain made by the knight. There's no one else who could do any of these let alone all of them. Especially not a known missing person, or a corpse, or a floating black knight, or whatever Dess knighters think Dess looks like in the light world.
    A clear case can be made for Noelle knight from CHAPTER 1
    I actually feel so stupid because it took me so long to realize all of this. Noelle knight isn't even meant to be a super hidden twist, the game begs you to notice in almost every single scene.
  • The game teaches us Noelle's mental state by putting us through it
    The game goes out of its way to drill Noelle's exact mental process into your head. As if telling you multiple times wasn't enough, you literally PLAY THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS on CH3 then go through it IN REAL LIFE.
    WHY DOES THE GAME DO THIS?
    So you can understand EXACTLY HOW Noelle knight works. The game is begging you to pick this up, PLEASE pick it up.
  • Symbolism and appearance
    Already been over this so many times. The knight has antlers which eliminates everyone outside the Holidays, everything else about the knight's appearance is explained by Noelle wearing a black cloak and mask and possibly using a flashlight.
  • Logic puzzles
    In CH3 you have a logic puzzle where you control 2 monsters, the first one is clearly Noelle which everyone immediately understands. Cool but everyone thinks the second one is Dess. Not cool.
    Luckily we can modify the literal parental lock inside the code of the game to reveal the answer like a cereal puzzle and see... That the monsters are one and the same, it's the deer, the same deer, one in her usual appearance and one in her knight suit.
    In CH4 you're given a puzzle in the church where if you pay attention to the choices Kris gives you, Noelle sticks out like a sore thumb as she's the only one who gets no options directly related to the shelter, if you take a step back you see Kris accidentally puts her under the spotlight.
    The game makes you go through the EXACT same logic puzzle with the EXACT same answer, just like CH3. You see Dess's room with imagery that possibly ties her to the knight, you see a glimpse of Carol's room, where she has a black katana, she also has another katana in her kitchen and she's obsessed with heart shaped objects, imagery that ties her to the knight.
    Who sticks out here? Noelle again.
    Keep in mind in both cases you get information Kris specifically wants you to see.
  • CH2 foreshadowing
    The plot of CH2 is Carol I mean Queen forcing Noelle to be the knight.
  • Works with the prophecy perfectly
    Noelle knight works with every prophecy panel AND gives us a good clue as to what the final panel may be AND prove that the prophecy panels are TO be reinterpreted, that's their purpose.
  • Explains every dark world
    Noelle knight explains every darkner in every dark world, why they are the way they are. CH1 was made with a specific purpose and plot by Noelle and Kris, CH2 was made subconsciously by Noelle and thus is completely about her from start to finish. CH4 dark world is mainly fixated on Gerson as he was likely the only darkner created with significant focus, Jackenstein hides his face because Noelle was scared and disgusted by the maggot she saw inside the rotten pumpkin while she was putting the Halloween decorations in the closet.
    The darkners are characters Kris and Noelle made up while playing games together as kids, Kris and Noelle's wills align perfectly which is why their dark worlds look the same.
    No other knight candidate explains this. Carol's cold unloving political ass could never come up with all this and Dess doesn't have the same connection to these darkners Noelle has. Remember, Dess was specifically shown NOT to care about objects as her mom just buys her new things whenever she breaks them, she's like that fucked up kid from Toy Story, why do you think there are a million shoes in her closer? Because she does NOT give a fuck about objects, they aren't there for decoration the game is giving you a message, that Dess doesn't CARE about darkners WHILE beating you in the head with a hockey stick, the game is literally hitting you in the face it's a CRY FOR HELP.
  • Explains FRIEND and the freedom motif
    If FRIEND is Noelle's smile it fits everywhere we see it. "BB-B-B-BUT WHAT ABOUT CH3 WHERE IT SEEMINGLY HELPS US AND STUFF???" that's Noelle keeping her part of the promise to be with you in the dark, if you kill the FRIENDs in the ERAM fight they heal you, in the shop the smile reads "always at your humble service" if you forgot how ERAM relates to Noelle, THE MINIGAME IS YOU GOING THROUGH NOELLE'S TRAUMA DEFENSE PROCESS. Also explains why you see the freedom motif in relation to the Mikes and not the knight, because the knight has the lost girl motif instead.
    Freedom motif is given to the darkners Noelle implants her desire for freedom to, or at least tries to, or at least she specifically focuses on. Jevil was the one who told the king about the knight. Spamton was created by Noelle while she was looking for Dess. Air Waves play while you play Pluey who looks EXACTLY like FRIEND. Gerson was Noelle's desperate attempt seeking guidance as to what to do. BOOM.
    Also FRIEND appears while we look at Susie's room as Ralsei explains how dark worlds work. Maybe being inside Susie's room excited her too much lol.
    Alternatively, FRIEND could be Noelle's shadow, I had this idea that lightners would also have shadows hidden in dark worlds but it's complete speculation, in this case ERAM would be Kris's shadow and the roaring would work if someone wants a world inhabited by shadows. This isn't an actual theory but rather a cool idea I had.
  • Explains why Kris works with Carol
    Because Kris isn't working "with Carol" they are working with Noelle.
  • Explains small details like Starwalker
    Things like the ornate gate only APPEARING as locked while every other locked door in the game is stated to only be locked and Starwalker being such an easily missable key item (heh) and the chalk scene make perfect sense in a Noelle knight context. You could laugh off Starwalker as a joke character but him being a star ornament shaped key is really the cherry on top of everything, or should I say, the star on top of the Christmas tree.
    Alt Tag

And with that. I think I made a pretty good case for

MILK LOOKER KNIGHT BABY
THINK ABOUT IT. MILK LOOKER IS THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS ZERO LOGISTICAL PROBLEMS FOR THE DARK FOUNTAINS, NONE AT ALL.
THEY KNOW ABOUT NOELLE LOOKING FOR DESS BECAUSE SHE GOES TO THE SUPERMARKET AND STARES INTO THE FREEZER
THEY HATE KRIS AND THE DREEMURS BECAUSE THEY ARE FREAKS, THEY EXPLICITLY SAY SO
THEIR KNOWLEDGE ON NOELLE IS PRECIESLY WHY THEY WEAR A KNIGHT SUIT WITH ANTLERS. COME ON NOW THE ANTLERS ARE OBVIOUSLY A RED HERRING, IT'S CLEARLY MILK LOOKER PUTTING ON THE ANTLERS SO YOU DON'T SUSPECT THEM

Jokes aside at this point I'm personally completely convinced Noelle is the knight. Carol is the closest second in my opinion but she has too many problems.
No other candidate even comes close to having a semi-good case for being the knight but if I had to rank them I'd put Rudy, Asgore and Papyrus above Dess then maybe Asriel and Sans but it's beyond ridiculous at that point. Come to think of it, Milk Looker probably has a better shot than Rudy.

There's bound to be some stuff I missed but I'm confident I've addressed everything that seems like a problem for Noelle knight and I think it's a very solid case overall.
Thanks for reading and you may submit your apology form anywhere you like, I'll see it because I look up everything about Noelle knight. lol

YOUR APOLOGY NEEDS TO BE AS LOUD AS YOUR DISRESPECT WAS

All jokes aside. Thanks for reading and have a nice day and I love you.
Also special thanks to deltarune text dump that saved my LIFE.

Adding this at the end because it's an idea that came to me after I posted the theory but the key to getting a good ending might be an aborted weird route where we get the ThornRing, the shadow mantle and all the shadow crystals.
Giving Noelle the shadow mantle and the twisted sword would literally be putting her in her knight suit of armor + her sword.
This also once again gives the weird route a legitimate reason to consider doing beyond curiosity or evil.
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Pub: 19 Feb 2026 23:36 UTC

Edit: 20 Feb 2026 16:13 UTC

Views: 1364