subtitles.srt

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1
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traditional greetings from my lands on the Cherokee Nation reservation in Oklahoma of

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the United States. I'm Pam Kingfisher, a daughter of plutonium and the co-coordinator, along

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with Demedy Hawkins from Australia, of the Nuclear Truth Project. Welcome to our first

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in a series of webinars showcasing voices of lived experiences, expertise, science,

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and creativity in nuclear abolition work. Sorry. The Nuclear Truth Project is a new

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international initiative connecting indigenous peoples, affected communities, international

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and civil society organizations, experts, governments advocating for nuclear abolition.

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We're working to create support and political will to build momentum for our ultimate goal,

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the total elimination of nuclear weapons, together with redress for those who've been

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harmed and minimization of future harms from the widespread ecological damage and radioactive

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violence that has already occurred and continues today. I'm honored to introduce our three

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speakers in the order in which they'll present. Rosenet Timius from the Bikini Atoll and the

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Kili and Kifit Islands within the Marshall Islands. Rosenet is joining us from Hawaii,

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where she is currently an undergraduate at the University of Hawaii, majoring in political

15
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science with a minor in pre-law. Rosenet was very involved with Jotikom, a nonprofit organization

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focused on empowering Marshallese youth to rise up to the issues of climate change and

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nuclear legacy that are affecting their tiny islands, vast ocean and humble people. Rosenet

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continues to raise awareness about the Marshallese nuclear legacy, specifically its progress,

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connection to health, education and climate change in the Marshall Islands. And then we'll

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hear from Danadip Lalkin from the Marshall Islands, where she continues to voice her

21
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people's deep concern of the nuclear legacy that intersects with climate change, health

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and youth. Currently based in Mahuro Atoll, Danadip works as a curriculum specialist at

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the Ministry of Education Public School System. She's a former lead member of the Marshall

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Islands Student Association and co-founder of MISA for the Pacific. She led the first

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MISA for the Pacific Solidarity March in 2019 in Suva and co-directed the excellent film,

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My Fish is Your Fish, which will be linked here. Danady continues to speak to the ongoing

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health and environmental impact in the Marshall Islands, resulting from the United States'

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67 nuclear weapons tested in the Marshall Islands. And then we'll hear from Dr. Arjun

29
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Makhijani, who is the president of the Institute for Energy and Environmental Research here

30
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in the US. Arjun has a PhD from UC Berkeley in engineering, specializing in nuclear fusion.

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A recognized authority on energy issues for over 40 years, Dr. Makhijani has deep knowledge

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of nuclear issues, including the impacts of testing. Arjun is the author and co-author

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of many reports on books and books on energy and environment related issues, including

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as principal editor of Nuclear Wastelands, produced by MIT Press. He has served as a

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consultant on energy issues to utilities, including the Tennessee Valley Authority,

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the Edison Electric Institute, the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, and several agencies

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of the United States. No, hello, the United Nations, but most importantly to me, the Cherokee

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Nation. And he was the lead scientist for Native Americans for a Clean Environment when

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we shut down 23% of the world's uranium supply. I knew this would happen. Together in 1993.

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Arjun's a co-founder of the Nuclear Truth Project. With that, I welcome Danity to begin.

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And I think Roseanne will begin. I'm sorry. Yeah. Okay. Welcome, Roseanne. Okay. Thank

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you. Yabwe everyone. I am Roseanne Tumius, healing from the Tollapigini and K'le-Ena'eji

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Island. I want to first give a big kumonol, big kumonol thanks to the organizers of this

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event. Thank you for allowing me space to speak and share the history of my people.

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I dedicate my speaking time to our nuclear victims and survivors. And before we begin,

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may I ask that we have a moment of silence for the lives that were lost due to nuclear

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weapons. Thank you everyone. Can you guys see my slides? Yes. Thank you. In the Pacific

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Ocean lies the region of Oceania. This region comprises of the ethno-geographic, of the

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ethno-geographic groups called Palnesia, Micronesia, and Melanesia. The Republic of the Marshall

50
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Islands, along with the Republic of Palau, Republic of Kiribati, Republic of Nauru, Federated

51
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States of Micronesia, Guam, and Northern Mariana Islands, all make up what is known as Micronesia.

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Today our focus will be on the history and nuclear legacy of the Republic of the Marshall

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Islands. The Republic of the Marshall Islands is a cluster of 1,156 low-lying islands and

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islets and 27 coral atolls. The Marshall Islands is divided into two chains, and the western

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chain of the Marshall Islands is called Rarik, meaning sunset, and the eastern chain is called

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Rada, meaning sunrise. The population of the Republic of the Marshall Islands is around

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41,000 people, and majority of the population live on the capital city, which is Ndorong

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and Tso. Rosie, you're muted. I'm very sorry. I am very sorry. Can you guys hear me now?

59
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Yes. Okay, so about the Marshall Islands. The Marshall Islands is a cluster of 1,156

60
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low-lying islands and islets and 27 coral atolls. The Marshall Islands is divided into

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two chains, and the western chain of the Marshall Islands is called Rarik, meaning sunset, and

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the eastern chain is called Rada, meaning sunrise. The population of the Republic of

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the Marshall Islands is around 41,000 people, and majority of the population live on the

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capital city, which is Ndorong and Tso, and an island in Kwanjaren and Tso called Ibai.

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The official language of the Marshallese people is Marshallese, and the second language being

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English. The blue background of the flag of the Marshall

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Islands signifies the blue vast Pacific Ocean. The orange stripe represents the Rarik chain,

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and it also depicts bravery to navigate the blue ocean. The white stripe of the flag represents

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the Rarik chain, and it displays the peaceful nature of the Marshallese people. The sun's

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four big rays stand for the capital city and its three sub-districts. And if you look closely

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at the four bigger rays, it is shaped like a cross, and it is referring to the Christian

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faith of the Marshallese people. The people of the Marshall Islands are considered

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some of the greatest navigators of the world. They traverse the Pacific Ocean from one atoll

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to another in their canoes and use their man-made stick charts, pictured below, as their compass.

75
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The Marshall Islands is also home to the finest weavers. The handicrafts, traditionally known

76
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as amiguanos, are made from coconut shoot membranes and coconut fronds, shells, and

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pandanus leaves, and to create woven traditional clothes, traditional masks, baskets, bands,

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jewelry, and so much more. These amiguanos are admired for their intricate patterns and

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detailed carvings and designs. Similar to our brothers and sisters across

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the Pacific, the Marshall Islands was colonized. The first sighting of Spanish colonizers happened

81
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in the 16th century, and following the Spaniards were the Germans, who introduced co-producing,

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and then the Japanese, who established infrastructures, and later on, the United States of America.

83
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On December in the year of 1945, post-war, President Harry S. Truman declared the need

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of... I'll mute it again. Can you guys hear me? Sorry.

85
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On December in the year of 1945, post-war, President Harry S. Truman declared the need

86
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for the US Army to test the effect of atomic bombs, and the code name for the American-led

87
00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:59,160
effort to develop a functional atomic weapon was called the Manhattan Project.

88
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In February of 1946, Commodore Ben Wyatt of the US Army, he's pictured below, made his

89
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first visit to the atoll of Bikini in the Marshall Islands. Bikini was chosen because

90
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it is isolated, because of its isolation, and because airplanes and ships rarely go

91
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in that direction. Commodore Ben Wyatt assembled the people on

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a Sunday afternoon to propose that they leave their homeland for a short period of time

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in order to conduct the nuclear testings, which would be, quote, unquote, for the good

94
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of mankind and to end all wars. His visit will lead to the exodus of 167 Bikinians from

95
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their homeland in the commencement of the Manhattan Project.

96
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From the years of 1946 until 1958, a total of 67 bombs were dropped, were tested in the

97
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Marshall Islands, specifically on Bikini Atoll and Eniweta Atoll.

98
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In the early morning of March 1, 1954, at 6.45 a.m., Operation Castle commenced, and

99
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the most powerful hydrogen bomb, codenamed Bravo, was dropped on Bikini Atoll.

100
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Bravo was 15 megatons and traveled at 47,000 feet in just one minute and 132 feet in less

101
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than 10 minutes. To put into perspective, the Bravo bomb was

102
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1,000 times stronger than Hiroshima. The bomb dropped on Hiroshima, and it is estimated

103
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as if the U.S. were to drop 1.6 Hiroshima bombs every single day for 12 years. That's

104
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how powerful the Bravo bomb was. During the Castle Bravo test, the water temperature

105
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rose by 99,000 degrees Fahrenheit, fish and corals flinged into the air, and a mile-wide

106
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20, 250-feet-deep crater remains on the sea floor.

107
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Castle Bravo vaporized three islands in Bikini Atoll and contaminated most of the atolls

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in the Republic of the Marshall Islands, especially the neighboring atolls of Tromelat, Eniweta,

109
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and Wodan. On March 1, 1954, just three days after Castle

110
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Bravo was dropped, 82 people from Roanoke and Iluna were evacuated to Kwajenine Atoll

111
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to be treated and documented. This special and secret project was called Project 4.1.

112
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Researchers arrived to collect samples, obtain measurements, and observe the biological responses

113
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that show the level of exposure on each person. In this project, urine and blood tests were

114
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drawn and collected daily, and the human subjects, as they were labeled human subjects, were

115
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required to bathe three times a day in the lagoon with soap to see how their bodies would

116
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react. Before and after bathing, measurements were taken daily. The U.S. Army documented

117
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the population and control groups in ways that set a baseline for further studies on

118
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the long-term effects of radiation. These information were provided to ongoing studies

119
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on absorption rates, elimination processes, and other questions of interest to the national

120
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security and military defense of the United States.

121
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According to the reports on Project 4.1, the Bravo test has exposed 239 Marshallese on

122
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Wutara, Raulap, and Iluna Atolls to a significant level of radiation. It is also important to

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note that animals, such as pigs and rats, were also subjected to treatment.

124
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After the completion of the testings and the United States was satisfied, the U.S. military

125
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sent a man to build a crater on Anahuayda, and this crater is called the Ruin Atoll.

126
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This crater houses radioactive waste from the testing that were conducted on Bikini

127
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Atoll and Anahuayda Atoll, along with radioactive waste that they brought over from the testings

128
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that were conducted on U.S. soil in Nevada.

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This cracked crater, called Ruin Atoll, is now leaking into our ocean and destroying

130
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our environment. It greatly contributes to the rising sea level amid the climate crisis.

131
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So life after 1954 for the United States of America, they continue to compensate for the

132
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damages done through the combat of free association.

133
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And popular movies and TV series were inspired by the nuclear testings in the Marshall Islands,

134
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and the famous beach attire that is worn to the beach was also inspired by the nuclear testings.

135
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So next time you watch SpongeBob SquarePants or sit at the beach wearing your bikini,

136
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remember Castle Bravo.

137
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Although the people of Romuald and Anahuayda and Wodaruk were able to return home and people

138
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of Bikini have made or found a new home, generation after generation of Marshallese people continue

139
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to suffer from the traumatic events that took place and the health and environmental effects

140
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of the nuclear testing.

141
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While fighting for nuclear justice, we are also fighting the issues arising from climate

142
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change.

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Our people were forced to move from their homeland for the good of mankind.

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And now we have to move out of our homeland because of mankind.

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And as I previously mentioned, I am from K'nipikini'eji, KP for short, and most of my people of Bikini

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were relocated to a single island called K'nipikini'eji and others relocated to an islet on Mejero

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called Eji.

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There are only a few remaining number of nuclear survivors who are still with us today and

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my bumu or grandmother being one of them.

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Throughout my bumu's life, her name is Fruit Dime, I am named after her.

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Throughout her life, my grandmother has experienced evacuating her homeland, undergone two surgeries

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for breast cancer due to being exposed to radiation.

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And now she's living on an island that is extremely vulnerable to high tides and heavy

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rain.

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An island that has no lagoon for fishing and no proper soil to grow crops and harvest food.

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Her story, along with the, as well as the stories of other nuclear victims and survivors,

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are reminders for us to always remember Castle Bravo and to aim to abolish nuclear weapons.

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Again, again, kumu ta'ala, thank you to the organizers of this event for allowing me space

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to speak and share the stories of my people.

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And thank you to everyone who joined the webinar.

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I hope that you all were able to learn something from me today.

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Kumu ta'ala.

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Thank you and we move to Danity.

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Thank you so much, Rosenet.

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Danity, are you ready to go?

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Yes.

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I'm waiting for my slides to come up.

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Okay.

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All right.

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Kumu ta'ala.

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Thank you so much.

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Yahweh.

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Hello, everyone.

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My name is Danity Logan and I bring greetings to you all from my home, Mijuro et al., also

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known as the capital of Marshall Islands.

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I'm very thankful to be here today and especially grateful to be sharing the panel with Rosenet

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and Dr. Arjun.

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Next slide, please.

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All right.

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To begin, I'd like to pay homage to two incredible souls, Ichiro Mark from Bikini Atoll, sitting

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on the center right-hand photo, and Bede Edelman from Rolab Atoll, sitting on the left side

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of the left-hand photo.

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For those who may not know, Ichiro and Bede are both survivors of the U.S. nuclear testing

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here in the Marshall Islands.

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I had the privilege of working with them when we filmed our nuclear campaign video called

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My Fish is Your Fish, and I echo Pam's encouragement for all to watch it.

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It's accessible here.

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Thank you for sending the link.

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I think when you watch it, you might have a closer look to the inside stories of our

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nuclear survivors.

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Bede and Ichiro's stories of their internal and external struggles with the testing continue

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to enable the work that we do, as Rosen had mentioned, especially because we are the younger

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generation of Marshallese now that are experiencing the ongoing impacts of nuclear testing here

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in our home.

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Next slide, please.

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I want to take this time to thank both of them for their gift of sharing and voicing

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our nuclear legacy with us here in the Marshall Islands and across the world.

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Ichiro and Bede were only children when the Castle Bravo was detonated in Bikini on March

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1st of 1954.

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Ichiro told me that he experienced all kinds of trauma when the Castle Bravo was detonated.

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And to add to his horrific experience, he lived in exile from his home since the U.S.

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told his people that they couldn't live off the island.

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He also told me that he would never forgive the U.S. for the lasting damage that they

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had caused on them.

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In fact, most of our survivors still hold anger and resentment toward the U.S. government.

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Bede shares a similar experience with Ichiro.

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She lived her life with thyroid cancer and told me that she would take many medications

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each day to keep her health stabilized.

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And she also underwent surgery treatments for her thyroid cancer.

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Bede was many of the children in Rongelab, who played with the fallout from the Bravo

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shot, thinking that those were snowflakes.

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And she lost her parents and siblings early on because of the immediate impacts of the

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fallout.

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Unfortunately, I learned recently, like last week from Rosenet, that Ichiro, who happens

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to be Rosenet's also grandfather, that he passed away two years ago.

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And just two weeks ago, I was making arrangements to visit Bede, only to learn that she passed

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away November of last year.

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And in both times, I wasn't on island.

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And it's kind of sad that I didn't get to say my last goodbye and respect to them.

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And more so, it's very sad that we're losing more of our first generation of survivors

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who hold the firsthand stories of the testings.

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Because without their stories, I feel Marshall isn't clear history and stories might fade

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away from us, causing us to lose the history.

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And I can only imagine the younger generation coming up, not having the opportunity to experience

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what I got to experience with Bede and Ichiro.

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Both Ichiro and Bede wanted nothing more than to return to their home.

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Next slide, please.

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I want to now quickly give an overview of the status of our health today in the Marshall

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Islands, all of which I believe links to our nuclear legacy.

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Cancer rate in the Marshall Island continues to be on the rise with adults.

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We are seeing more people, especially girls and women over the age of 20, being diagnosed

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with cancer illnesses, such as cervical cancer, breast cancer, including many others, and

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other unspecified cancers.

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In a source I extracted from our cancer registry here that shows cancer data in the higher

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my over a span of 15 years, from 2007 to 2022, cervical cancer is the top adult cancer.

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And for our Marshallese women, we often don't know that we have cancer unless we get diagnosed

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early.

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And oftentimes, these diagnoses are found when we reach the late stages of our cancer.

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Marshallese continue to echo that we are all poisoned or radioactively contaminated.

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And this is to say that they oppose, we oppose U.S.'s claim that only four adults were impacted

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from the Bravo shot.

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They claim that Enewetak, Romolap, Udurag and Pikini were the only highly affected adults

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during the Bravo detonation.

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It doesn't help that the nuclear waste storage in Maroon Island that is currently leaking

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radioactive contamination to our ecosystem is ruining our crops and mixing with our freshwater

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lenses, exposing us to more radiation.

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I want to make the case of noncommunicable diseases because here in the Marshall Islands,

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it has worsened over the years.

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Young adults are diagnosed with NCDs today, even children.

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Why?

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Well, as many of our Marshallese, especially our elders, and often they will respond by

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saying because of what the U.S. did to our islands.

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And what they really mean is that Marshallese have lost our subsistence lifestyle as a result

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of the U.S. nuclear testing.

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Therefore, we've lost our traditional knowledge and ways of living on the land and water to

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a great degree.

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Now more than ever, we rely heavily on imported goods.

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One of the staple food in any Marshallese household that you can find are white rice,

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white flour, canned or tinned meats like tuna, corned beef, corned beef hash, Vienna sausage,

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along with ramen noodles, barrest, frank hot dogs, imported frozen meats, vegetables, all

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of which are highly processed and filled with little to no nutrition.

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Local foods are substituted with all of these, along with others, sugary drinks and food.

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And this is to say that we are eating less and less of our local food.

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It affects our overall health and well-being.

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And use my family as an example.

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My dad's side of the family, him and his six siblings, parents, aunts and uncles, and grandparents,

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most of them all passed away due to diabetes and kidney failure.

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My dad passed away at the age of 52 years ago.

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And some, if not most of my first cousins are either diagnosed or have higher cancer,

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higher chances of having prediabetes, diabetes and borderline hypertension.

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On my mother's side, she has altogether 10 siblings have hypertension and now diabetes.

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And they all take medications for those two.

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So imagine eating on a daily, those kind of food, and having to experience diabetes early

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on and losing your life to that.

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And I personally predict that our health in the Marshall Islands will only worsen from

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here on, especially with the impacts of rising sea level, as referenced by Rosenet earlier.

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Next slide, please.

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Now what scares me is that our health services are very limited here in the Marshall Islands.

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Just to give you an overview of our health facilities, we have two main hospitals located

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in our two urban areas, Midyodo and Iwai.

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We have about 59, roughly, give and take, care centers servicing outer islands.

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And these are led by healthcare assistants, not doctors, healthcare assistants.

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There is one 177 health clinic, healthcare center here in Midyodo that I know, and it

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provide health service to people of four ads all only, the people of Enewata, Pignini,

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Kalianudar.

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This clinic is part of an agreement in our contact of free association with the US, where

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the US provides some funding for basic healthcare.

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Basic healthcare.

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Our facilities only provide basic healthcare, or we can say that they also provide primary,

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secondary, and some territory healthcare.

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The challenge here is that these facilities are not equipped with the necessary medical

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tools, medicines, and technical and human capacity to properly provide care for our

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cancer patients.

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And even for our overriding cases of MCDs and other medical issues.

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So for instance, our lab tests are being sent to labs in the state, Hawaii in particular,

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for pathologists to study and send back our lab results.

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For our patients that require further medical care, the RMI has supplemental insurance that

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can send our martialist patients to Hawaii, Philippines, or Taiwan for further treatments.

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But that doesn't guarantee all patients have eligibility to receive treatment, especially

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if your health case has less chance of making it out alive.

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In other cases, martialists migrate to the US to seek medical assistance with families

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abroad, living abroad.

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Next slide, please.

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Oh, that's just to give you like a visual of what our Maduro Hospital look like.

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Those are the two main hospitals.

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That one is Maduro Hospital over there on the top left, and then that's Ibai Hospital

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bottom.

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Next slide, please.

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Now each year when we commemorate nuclear victims and survivors, remember in State

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and the Marshall Islands, we always have a theme.

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And this year's theme is Kurtabalak, which can be literally translated as point of no

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return.

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However, it has a deeper cultural meaning that sums up how we perceive our nuclear legacy

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and is a reminder of the much needed work that requires all of us to do in order to

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bring nuclear justice to our people and our environment.

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Kurtabalak is three words put together to make the word Kurtabalak.

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When I was reflecting on this theme when it came out, this is how I make sense of it.

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Kurt means to call out, tab means wood shavings from carving of canoes, and la means, you

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know, it implies looking ahead.

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So each wood shaving represents people.

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And as one of my elders shared with me, can also symbolize the creative ideas and solutions

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that we can use to move toward a peaceful future without nuclear weapons.

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And the idea of point of no return is meant to be there, because it implies that we already

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know what nuclear weapons can do to humanity.

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In our case in the Marshall Islands, we have lived through it.

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And we have fought to stop it even before it began.

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And we continue to voice the issue of nuclear testings to this day.

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There is no point of stopping right now.

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We must continue ahead until we receive the justice that we deserve.

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Next slide, please.

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Why is all of this important to me?

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The simple answer I can give is that the Marshall Island is home to many of us here.

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It is our place of belonging and we feel the most alive here.

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We are a proud matrilineal society, which means that our lands are passed on through

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our mothers lineages.

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Like our mothers, our lands provide everything that we need, the same with the ocean.

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And our livelihood is always dependent on the resources of both land and water.

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I want to say, I want to say, and by saying, and carry on with the work that we are doing

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to end all nuclear weapons.

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For you, for me, for Revsnets family, and for each of the spirit will continue to be

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with us as we continue our work toward a nuclear free world.

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Thank you.

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Thank you for bringing that spirit to us and sharing these stories.

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Arjun, you ready to go?

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Yeah, thank you.

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I'm going to share my screen.

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I'm going to give you a little survey of the tests and a little bit of the data around

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those tests.

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There were six tests in the CASEL series.

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Bravo was the first.

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It's on March 1, but it's listed in the Department of Energy list as the 8th of February.

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The total power of these tests was 46,000 kiloton.

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Yeah.

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Arjun, apologies to interrupt.

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Do you want to make your slide full screen?

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Oh, yeah.

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Okay.

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I'll make it full screen.

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About 46 times the total of all the atmospheric tests that were conducted.

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That's just this test series.

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Bravo was the largest.

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Sorry, it's a little bit misplaced.

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These yields should...

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I'm sorry.

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I'll have to fix.

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I didn't notice that.

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I'm sorry.

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Bravo, it should be all shifted up by one.

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I'll fix the slides and send them.

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I apologize, but the totals are correct.

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There were some other very big tests, 11 megatons, 7 megatons, nearly more than 13 megatons.

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This is one picture of the Bravo test, I think.

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Rosenet already showed something close to this.

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I want to show you some fallout maps that were made.

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Now this is decay corrected.

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This doesn't represent the actual fallout at the time of the test, but doesn't include

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like iodine-131, which causes all the thyroid problems, because this is corrected to what

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00:36:54,800 --> 00:37:02,840
it remains 100 days after the test, and almost no iodine-131 remains 100 days after the test.

379
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,120
I'm going to blow it up a little.

380
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,680
This is from the Bravo test alone.

381
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:18,820
Here the inner circle you see, this is in disintegrations per minute per square foot

382
00:37:18,820 --> 00:37:19,820
of land.

383
00:37:19,820 --> 00:37:24,840
Of course, all of these are hundreds of square miles, and so you've got millions of square

384
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:25,840
feet.

385
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:32,440
But the inner circle number is the fallout around the Marshall Islands.

386
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:37,160
You see that as 50,000.

387
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,960
I will go here.

388
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,840
This is Mexico City around here, 8150.

389
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:48,040
They had fallout measuring stations throughout the world.

390
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:58,240
These are data from those stations compiled in 1955 in a report by, I think it was the

391
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:01,280
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

392
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:02,280
I'm not sure.

393
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:07,040
The reference is there for you.

394
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,920
This is the cumulative fallout from the whole test series.

395
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,720
I'm going to show you a different version of this.

396
00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:15,240
I'll show you the same thing.

397
00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:22,800
If you look at around the Marshall Islands, the total fallout decay corrected to about

398
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:30,440
130 days after the test was about five times the total.

399
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:35,680
Bravo had the worst impact in terms of the fallout on people.

400
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,440
Rongelap especially is very well known for that.

401
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:45,960
But the total fallout was much greater in the whole of the Marshall Islands.

402
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:51,120
The long-term fallout was about five times from the Bravo test alone.

403
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:55,600
I'll show you a different version of this.

404
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,640
This is Mexico City.

405
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:09,120
The cumulative fallout in Mexico City, 52,973 from the whole test series was about the same

406
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:24,000
as this 50,000 around the Marshall Islands from the Bravo test alone.

407
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,640
This is as far as Mexico City on this side.

408
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:33,320
I'll show you another city in another map.

409
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,280
We made a map of this, an interactive map of this.

410
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:42,000
I want to go to the interactive map so I can show you the names of the cities.

411
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:43,000
Can you see this?

412
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,400
Can you see this Mexico City?

413
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,520
No, it's just showing the PowerPoint slides still.

414
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,640
You might have to stop sharing and start again.

415
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:53,880
I can see it.

416
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,000
You can see the answer.

417
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,000
I'll stop sharing and then start sharing again.

418
00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:59,880
I do want...

419
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:03,280
Bear with me.

420
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,560
Can you see this now?

421
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,200
Oh, yeah.

422
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:10,200
Mexico City.

423
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:18,840
This map was put together by a colleague of mine, Eunice Tinkabuala, from the maps from

424
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,880
the 1955 report.

425
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,280
We tried to make it color, put the names of the cities.

426
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:26,680
It's not complete yet.

427
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,840
This is a work in progress.

428
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,760
It shows...

429
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,960
The Marshall Islands is here.

430
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:39,880
You can see a vast area of the ocean around the Marshall Islands was contaminated.

431
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:45,160
You heard that the US only recognizes four atolls, but you can see there was intense

432
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:51,920
fallout in a huge area of the ocean all around the Marshall Islands.

433
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,600
There were hot spots in Mexico City on this side.

434
00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:03,720
There was another hot spot all the way westward to Colombo, Sri Lanka.

435
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:09,120
There was a fair amount of...

436
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:14,600
I think Fiji is somewhere around here.

437
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:23,600
So you can see there was not a non-negligible amount of fallout in Albuquerque, in Tucson,

438
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:24,600
Arizona.

439
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:32,680
So the CASEL test series produced a vast global fallout.

440
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:39,160
This map has never been analyzed for health impact, but I want to tell you that the US

441
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:49,080
has had this map since 1955 and has yet still not admitted that the entire Marshall Islands

442
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:54,560
was impacted, which I think is a huge issue.

443
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,520
Now I'll continue with my slides.

444
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,920
You've seen that.

445
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:09,840
So this is the fallout from the Bravo test.

446
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,800
These are rats, cumulative fallout, 3,000.

447
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:25,560
These are lethal levels of radiation, 3,000, 1,900, 1,300, 400 rats without medical treatment

448
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,000
will kill about half the people.

449
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,040
This is around the lap here.

450
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:38,040
I'm sorry.

451
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,520
But you can see that all of these atolls were affected.

452
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,160
I will show you that.

453
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,240
So I want to say something about the location of the test site.

454
00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:52,880
They said it was remote.

455
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,200
But this should not be accepted at face value.

456
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:02,900
After the Trinity test in New Mexico on July 16, Stafford Warren conducted a radiological

457
00:43:02,900 --> 00:43:11,080
survey and found severe fallout in many places, including days after the test.

458
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:15,200
And he advised that was a 25 kiloton test.

459
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:21,320
We're talking about the Castle series at 46,000 kilotons.

460
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,680
And he said if you, and a single test, of course, 15,000 kilotons.

461
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:30,620
And he said, if you're going to do a similar test, that is about 25 kilotons, there should

462
00:43:30,620 --> 00:43:37,960
be no one within 150 miles of human, no human habitation within 150 miles.

463
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:42,340
That was violated in Nevada, and that was violated in the Marshall Islands.

464
00:43:42,340 --> 00:43:46,960
And not only that, the people of Rangalap, as you know, were not evacuated for two and

465
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:53,800
a half days, and they suffered very severe levels of radiation.

466
00:43:53,800 --> 00:44:01,800
The meteorological conditions and other conditions for testing were known in advance to not be

467
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,400
suitable.

468
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:09,840
So a quote from the official document before the first test was done at Bikini in 1946

469
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:14,960
is Marshall Islands did not quote in the main, unquote, meet the criteria for a suitable

470
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,600
site.

471
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:23,680
And after the 1948 test series, they said, which was all the tests, three, I think, were

472
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:29,000
at Eniwetok, they said the conditions were far from satisfactory.

473
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:35,240
But of course, the test continued for another day, including the Cassel flu.

474
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:40,400
I want to give you some numbers, and please focus on these numbers.

475
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:49,720
So 1997, the National Cancer Institute published a large report with many maps, and I can show

476
00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:53,360
you the map, you know, during the question and answer, I don't want to talk for too long,

477
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,320
I'm going to end very soon.

478
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:03,960
But fallout from the Nevada test site testing, atmospheric testing, the most severe doses

479
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:08,080
were to the thyroid because of iodine 131.

480
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:12,920
It comes down in the rain, falls down the grass, cattle and sheep grazing, and when

481
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:18,000
you drink the milk or eat the meat, especially drink the milk, not so much the meat, you

482
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:23,680
get iodine 131, which has a half-life of eight days, which means it's gone in about three

483
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,520
months.

484
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:31,840
The most severely contaminated places where people got the highest doses were generally

485
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,280
in rural areas because people are drinking fresh milk.

486
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:41,360
And they were four of the five most exposed counties where the highest average doses were

487
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,200
in Idaho.

488
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:50,640
So far as I know, I'm the only outside scientist who has gone to these counties to explain

489
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:56,180
the results of the National Cancer Institute study, the National Academies did one meeting,

490
00:45:56,180 --> 00:46:01,520
but they did it in Boise, Idaho, the capital of Idaho, which is not in any of these counties.

491
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:02,520
And there was one in Montana.

492
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:07,840
I have not been to there.

493
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:17,800
So the average in these highest exposed was 120 to 160 milligram.

494
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:24,880
So the low exposure atolls, now this is according to the National Cancer Institute.

495
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:32,520
So this is an official study from 2004, the low exposure Southern atolls, not the lowest

496
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:38,240
exposure what they call, but the low exposure Southern atolls, 270 milligrams.

497
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:45,960
So roughly double the highest exposures in the United States to the thyroid age weighted

498
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,760
in the Marshall Islands.

499
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:57,840
Higher exposure Northern atolls, higher exposure, my term, but obvious from about 10 times that

500
00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:59,900
of the low exposure.

501
00:46:59,900 --> 00:47:05,760
And so we're talking about 20 times the highest exposure in the United States to the thyroid.

502
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,120
And these are average over areas.

503
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:13,320
Utrecht about a hundred times, Rondelap about 600 times.

504
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,360
And these are official dose estimates.

505
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:21,240
My friend, Ben Frankie and many others, several others.

506
00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:27,040
My friend Hans Beiling has done independent dose estimates.

507
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:32,720
Their dose estimates to the thyroid are many times higher than this.

508
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:39,000
So we're talking about independent dose estimates that are thousands of times higher than the

509
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:45,960
highest dose estimates in the United States, thousands of times in the case of Rondelap

510
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:51,640
and hundreds of times in the case of Utrecht and dozens of times in the case of the other

511
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,820
area.

512
00:47:53,820 --> 00:47:59,080
Anyone looking at this, so other radionuclides of iodine goes along with all the other radionuclides

513
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,080
that goes away faster.

514
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:02,480
They persist.

515
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:09,000
This means this is absolute proof from the National Cancer Institute, along with the

516
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,040
maps that I have shown you.

517
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:19,160
This was my primary purpose today is to absolutely demonstrate to you that by US government data

518
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:27,840
from 1955 till today, well, it was 54 data compiled in 1955 and published in 1955 till

519
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:35,040
today that there should have been no doubt that the entire Marshall Islands was impacted

520
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:41,320
and not only the entire Marshall Islands, but a very significant part of the globe with

521
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:46,240
hotspots as far east as Mexico City and as far west.

522
00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:50,000
Now we're talking east and west of the Marshall Islands, of course.

523
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:56,800
I want to end by saying a couple of more general things.

524
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:02,520
The Bravo test, of course, contaminated the Lucky Dragon, the number five, the fishing

525
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:06,720
boat, and that became a very big scandal.

526
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:14,160
It also did arouse global calls for ending testing.

527
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:24,120
I think it had a major role in the test moratorium from 58 to 61 or two, 61, I think.

528
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,800
It also raised calls for nuclear disarmament.

529
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,640
We don't have that yet.

530
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,840
And that's what a lot of this fight is about.

531
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:36,320
I wanted to say a couple of things about health.

532
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:41,000
Thyroid doses, thyroid affects everything.

533
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,960
Just a simple Google, I'm not a doctor.

534
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:50,120
Tillman is on and maybe he will say something about the role of the thyroid, but it impacts

535
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:51,120
everything.

536
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:52,120
It impacts whether you put on weight.

537
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,840
It impacts whether you lose weight, whether you have too much or too little of the thyroid

538
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:57,840
hormone.

539
00:49:57,840 --> 00:49:58,840
It impacts how you grow.

540
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,000
It impacts your nervous system.

541
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,720
It impacts everything.

542
00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:06,240
It impacts the parathyroid.

543
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:13,080
It impacts how much calcium you have in your blood.

544
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:14,720
And that's just the thyroid.

545
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:20,760
And I want to, you know, you've talked about the grandmothers.

546
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:27,720
And I want to end on this note, and I hope we'll publish a report soon on intergenerational,

547
00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:30,160
multigenerational impacts.

548
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:38,240
But one of the things that has been most ignored or neglected in radiation research has been

549
00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:44,440
what we inherit from our mothers and maybe the Marshall Islanders being a matrilineal

550
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:49,560
society will put this issue on the map as well.

551
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:56,280
You have, I am sure, multigenerational impacts based on the doses and the research that is

552
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:00,800
very clear from the data from Hiroshima and Nagasaki onward.

553
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:08,080
But the part of our DNA that we don't talk about a whole lot, the mitochondria, which

554
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:14,240
is the energy system of our body, is inherited only from our mothers.

555
00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:20,640
The mitochondria and the sperm, but it's stripped out at the time of fertilization.

556
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:24,240
So the mitochondria we have all come from our mothers.

557
00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:29,280
There are hundreds of mitochondria or thousands in each cell.

558
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:33,440
And they're much more easily damaged by radiation.

559
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:38,720
And of course, it's our maternal inheritance from the ova that are made.

560
00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:41,600
So let me, we have some young people here.

561
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:46,080
I'm so happy to be on with you, Rosenet and Danity.

562
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:52,280
I sometimes ask people, I won't ask you, when I talk how old they are, and they tell me

563
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,440
their age, 25, 30, 35, whatever.

564
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:59,000
And I tell them that that's only partly correct.

565
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:05,240
That part of us is as old as our mothers, because the egg from which we were made was

566
00:52:05,240 --> 00:52:11,360
made in our mothers when they were in their mother's womb.

567
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:22,120
So that idea, I hope that you as women from a matrilineal society will make the world

568
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:23,720
conscious of it.

569
00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:28,840
And I hope we can make progress in nuclear justice and getting rid of nuclear weapons,

570
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:33,720
because they've been around for too long, far too long.

571
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:34,720
Thank you very much.

572
00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:35,720
Thank you.

573
00:52:35,720 --> 00:52:39,000
Thank you so much, Arjun, Danity, and Rosenet.

574
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,280
This has been a really incredible hour.

575
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,080
We have a few minutes left.

576
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:50,160
I don't see any questions in the chat, but if you want to pop some in there.

577
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:58,240
Just to be sure and tell you, this webinar will be recorded and posted on the ICANN Australian

578
00:52:58,240 --> 00:52:59,240
YouTube channel.

579
00:52:59,240 --> 00:53:00,760
So it'll be available.

580
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:06,080
I know that some of the young people and student groups and others will be utilizing this in

581
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:12,520
the Marshall Islands over the next month as they really commemorate this date.

582
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:14,240
I learned so much.

583
00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:15,960
So are there any questions?

584
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:21,520
I think there's a hand raising function or pop them in the chat.

585
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,440
Be sure to visit Arjun's website.

586
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:29,120
There's a lot of resources there in his books.

587
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:33,880
And again, this is a first of a series from the Nuclear Truth Project that we will be

588
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:40,520
continuing on with these webinars and continuing to educate ourselves and lift up these voices

589
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:45,680
that we just don't hear these stories.

590
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:46,680
It's a lot.

591
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:51,320
And thank you, Rosenet and Danity, especially for your personal stories, for your personal

592
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:55,520
photos and sharing your families and your lives with us.

593
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:59,160
Sorry, I always get so emotional, but that's okay.

594
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:05,120
That's what we're here for, is to feel each other and to inspire each other to keep working

595
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:09,360
and to keep carrying on.

596
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:10,440
We will send out a link.

597
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:16,160
I think we'll have all your email addresses to send a link to the ICANN Australia YouTube

598
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,920
channel.

599
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,040
I don't see anything really specific.

600
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,720
We have Arjun's website in the chat.

601
00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:25,240
Lots of thanks all around.

602
00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:29,840
And just, oh, thank you so much to all of you speakers.

603
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:31,000
And please help me.

604
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:36,640
Join me in a big thanks to Jess Bolan and Jim Romo from ICANN Australia, our invaluable

605
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:41,680
partners providing the technical assistance for this webinar.

606
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:47,200
We send deep gratitude to our friends at MISA for the Pacific, the Pacific Conference of

607
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:54,240
Churches and ICANN Australia for joining us in co-sponsoring this event.

608
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:59,760
The funding is coming through a grant provided by the Equity Rises portfolio of the Plough

609
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,280
Shores, Plough Shares Fund.

610
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:07,520
This content is not necessarily endorsed by the agency.

611
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:14,040
You can visit our website at nucleartruthproject.com for more information, resources, and most

612
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:19,880
importantly, there are protocols for engaging affected communities and peoples.

613
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:25,560
These protocols are in community consultations right now, but look for an upcoming webinar

614
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:32,800
as we detail this really important work out in how we do our work together and how we

615
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,560
respect each other and our stories.

616
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:37,800
Okay, I'm losing it.

617
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,480
Somebody want to take, I see a hand up.

618
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,800
Jan, we're really at time, but we do have one minute.

619
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,960
So go for it.

620
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:53,360
I wanted to ask if Arjun could please comment on the connection between nuclear power, that

621
00:55:53,360 --> 00:56:00,840
is the nuclear power reactors and nuclear weapons, the nuclear power reactors that are

622
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,960
created for electricity and other purposes.

623
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,320
Well, it's a complicated question.

624
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:14,840
I'll try to give you a one minute answer, which is the basics of the technologies are

625
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:16,280
the same.

626
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,880
The bombs depend on fission, nuclear power depends on fission.

627
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:26,520
You're splitting uranium atoms or plutonium atoms nuclei, and you get highly radioactive

628
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,040
fission products.

629
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:33,880
We still don't know what to do with the plutonium from all the surplus bombs and from all the

630
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,160
waste from the nuclear power plants.

631
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:43,280
There are some differences in that the fission in the bombs happens all at once.

632
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:51,840
And the fission powers has to be controlled to produce electricity.

633
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:53,440
But they all generate waste.

634
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:58,400
The most ubiquitous pollutant they both generate is tritium, which is radioactive hydrogen.

635
00:56:58,400 --> 00:56:59,400
It becomes water.

636
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:06,680
It has polluted everything, is the most common pollutant from nuclear power plants.

637
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:11,160
It is discharged into rivers and lakes and the oceans and winds up many people's drinking

638
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,000
water supplies.

639
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,480
That has also happened with nuclear weapons.

640
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:21,440
In Savannah Riverside, they have tritium in the ponds there from tritium production and

641
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:22,440
plutonium production.

642
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:27,320
It evaporates the water from the ponds and it rains down radioactive rain on the other

643
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,000
side of the river.

644
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:30,960
Many people's wells are contaminated.

645
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:36,320
That also happens near nuclear power plants where tritium leaks and then it contaminates

646
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:39,800
people's wells.

647
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:41,720
So there are many different connections.

648
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:52,600
The political connection is this.

649
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:59,640
I think nuclear weapons became illegitimate as an enterprise in December 1944 when the

650
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:05,360
Manhattan Project found out that the Germans don't have a viable bomb.

651
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:09,800
From that time on, I think the justification for the project was over.

652
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:14,760
The famous physicist Richard Feynman has said this also.

653
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:18,400
He was there in Los Alamos.

654
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:22,360
In different words.

655
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:27,920
Nuclear power also similarly was born out of a sort of a self-deception.

656
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:36,400
Eisenhower didn't want to talk about the horror of thermonuclear weapons alone in 1953 after

657
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:41,600
the Soviet thermonuclear test in September 1953.

658
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:46,160
He told his speech writers that he didn't want a gloom and doom speech alone.

659
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:47,400
Give me something good to say.

660
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:48,400
Those are my words.

661
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,800
But that was the message they got.

662
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:54,560
So the message they gave him was atoms for peace.

663
00:58:54,560 --> 00:59:00,800
Atoms for peace is a fig leaf on the horror of thermonuclear weapons.

664
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:06,360
That was how atoms for peace speech was constructed.

665
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:12,560
At that time, it was known that nuclear power would be much more expensive than coal-fired

666
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:14,200
power.

667
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:19,360
Even though the chairman of the AEC said it would one day be too cheap to meter, every

668
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:23,080
single official study done said it would be more expensive.

669
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:29,360
Every single one that I've ever seen and I've made an effort to find them all.

670
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:39,560
So there's a kind of continuity to the layers of deception, cover up, withholding the truth.

671
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:47,320
Just like saying only four atolls were really affected when the data from 1954 onward till

672
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:52,440
today is very, very, very clear, at least in my opinion.

673
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:55,160
I'd be happy to debate this.

674
59:55,160 --> 01:00:04,340
And so the biggest problem with these two things, in my opinion, are not that the most

675
01:00:04,340 --> 01:00:15,680
anti-democratic instruments, either for energy or military purposes, invented by humans.

676
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,680
That's what unites them both, most powerful.

677
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:25,240
That sounds like a big question for another webinar and all these things are tied together.

678
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:26,240
Sorry, I took four minutes.

679
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:27,240
No, that's okay.

680
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:28,240
I took four minutes.

681
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:29,240
Sorry.

682
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,320
Two and four minutes is pretty darn good, Arjun.

683
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:35,200
And always explains to me things in a capsule.

684
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,820
So thanks for your questions.

685
01:00:38,820 --> 01:00:43,480
We do have the link to the YouTube channel in chat.

686
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:47,740
Again, thank you, technology, all your support here.

687
01:00:47,740 --> 01:00:51,240
So we just want to thank everyone for joining us.

688
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:56,560
We'll put you on our mailing list and we'll be sending out, we'll be doing more of these

689
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:59,800
webinars and getting us together and carrying on.

690
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:06,640
Pam, could I say how happy I have been to share this platform with Danity and Rosie?

691
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:12,840
Thank you for doing that, making it possible for this old guy to be on the platform with

692
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:13,840
it.

693
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:17,440
I really am very honored and appreciate it.

694
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:24,840
So very honored to share my story with you all today.

695
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:48,840
Thank you.


Edit
Pub: 05 Mar 2023 08:38 UTC
Edit: 05 Mar 2023 10:18 UTC
Views: 61