The Preface
- I am by no means a coder, I know enough to tell you what the code in rogue does and do the edits for these type of ideas but not to make new code.
- You can implement these changes in an offline fork, so far you are using a 1.3.1 version of the offline thing for much, much easier modding (you have the same formatting as Pokerogue's main online fork meaning you can just cross reference their PRs for changes to know where shit is)
- For the balancing side, I don't like Endless and as such it is not considered at all, if you enjoy it, more power to you, I don't think I remove any of your strategies and maybe a couple back by accident? 99.9% of my changes are in the view of classic and classic solely. I tried Endless twice and began venomously hating Pokerogue when I had a decent Gholdengo run going because the mode on a fundamental level had nothing I liked of pokemon (I like the trainer fights and doing team strats instead of super carries) and takes way, way too long to "get going" for me. I also think the idea of Endless is sort of 'doomed to fail'. Will spoil the one that I know is a bone to endless is that I'd make Berry Pouch have 100% proc chance when you have 3 stacks again, that change was fucking retarded.
- My theory is that the Salt Cure/Metal Burst strategies will be its destiny as they are the only strategies that work when the scaling outpaces the player's ability to boost their own power through normal means and the only way to stop this I see is by adding ~3 endless clasuses (all bosses have magic guard, all bosses have Taunt as a 5th move, 50/50 chance to have Mold breaker as a 2nd passive, dna splicers don't spawn in endless, etc.), or having the scaling so harsh be that you don't have the time to set up the late run strategy. Also editing Endless, at least for the online fork, has the knockon effect of needing to start massively boosting the rates across the board because Endless is the farming mode for everything but catching Paradoxes and maybe tickets. Shinies, HAs, rare pokemon/legendaries, candies for passive/egg moves/specific shinies are all better gotten in Endless than in Classic (and maybe is influencing among other things why the endless rework is taking a hot minute, other priorities and the fact that Endless sets the tone for mid/late progression in Pokerogue).
- This is based on the Pokerogue fork of 8/1/2024, after the update that had cookies for the exclusive purposes for the two-tier authentication systems, and most of the ideas will be somewhat simpler in scope considering the first point, reference the table of contents below for what I'll be talking about. And that I will make reference to the egg move/passive changes document as they were at 8/1/2024, but not take into account the 5th egg move document (for depending on its implementation is probably when the fine-tooth comb has to be brought out, taking into consideration TMs for coverage and changing probably 70% of egg moves).
The Baton Pass/Naganadel Theorem
- I see pokerogue not best as a 'hard' roguelike for the floor but as a sandbox, now in all best possible worlds where the spirit of Satoru Iwata possesses me/the dev team, we'd have the Heats modifier from Hades but blown the fuck up for classic. The ideal is that base classic is 'easy' once you get unlocks not only on your account but also knowledge for the mode (what I consider to be the biggest part of making Classic easier since we first played). This can give it the early bite to a new player while also allowing tons of team variety for more casual-ish players (casual in the idea they aren't spamming Naganadel in classic, not that in the runs they are playing they aren't trying to be the what they think is the most optimal with whatever strategy they brought forth). Now a hard mode absolutely should exist and it should take heavy inspiration/copying from Hades' Heat modofiers, a customizable hard mode that I'll refer to as "Classic+". In Classic+ you can turn a dozen nobs to make the run harder so it can be harder on your own terms (Nuzlocke rules, poverty, few items/money, no passives/egg moves, harsher mystery encounters when they're implemented, mono type/generation, massively buffed trainers, etc.). Then with achievement shop (or whatever the fuck the team wants it to be, ribbons I think could also be a nice thing for this system but whatever), you get power mixed with QoL (imagine starting with wide lens, leek for your farfetchd, form change items/mega bracelet/dynamax band, get a guaranteed high-tier evolution item on an early/middle wave, 4 shiny/ability charms, etc.).
- I say all of this to put into focus that these balance changes won't care about being "Too Good" for classic, instead just going over the floor of "Hey, this is good for mon and would make them sing in classic" while trying to tie thematics into it if possible (will start out of order with an example of what I mean when looking at egg moves, and for the latter statement, think Delibird and Ledian, they are being unchanged because they are showcases of the complete malice GF has on some mons).
- Now for the name, the "Baton Pass/Naganadel Theorem" is that classic will always be fucked no matter how much you temper egg moves and passives. Not giving Sharpedo Fishious Rend or Tapu Koko Bolt Beak won't stop Huntail/Ninjask from being able to baton pass +1 speed/+2 attack/shell smash if the AI does the 'mistake' of clicking a water/ground/grass move and that mon not having the coverage to ohko Huntai/Ninjask, and these mons don't need passives/egg moves to turn any mon into a monster just by having the opponent switch. Or fast sleep for some rng cheesing with Butterfree sleeping a fast switch or brute-forcing a slow switch by trading lum berries, and winning right there with Hurricanes and QD. If you were to try and balance classic to be "Not hard", you are at a sisyphusian task where you have to do shit like making Ninjask 6 cost because the utility is as good as bringing a legendary or making Naganadel a 9/10 cost because it is better than Mega Rayquaza in classic and will probably sweep all of classic for time immemorial barring Eternatus (who you can make a joke with Electrode, with Eerie Impulse you can drop Etern phase 1 sp.atk to -6 before dying). Naganadel's +2 DPulse outdoes base Ray's Dragon Energy (DEnergy), you have faster than mega ray speed, and if you get Searing Shot/TM Flamethrower, you are only walled by Heatran/extreme special walls like Chansey as Fire/Poison/Dragon has no resists and your beast boost means you fucking snowball out of control into a win real easily. Naganadel can fucking 1v1 Klefki if your rival switches to them turn 1 (NP on switch, NP again, Air Slash (flinch), Air slash, you just beat wave 195 without egg moves/passives) and can even 1v1 lead Mamoswine if the AI clicks Ice Shard because of priority with Dragon Pulse as imperfect IVs on their end can lead to them not even getting a 2hko. Even if you ignore better Rayquaza, imagine all the shit you could do with Shed Tail, Substitute, trapping, etc. The AI, even if improved (barring the button reading like Sucker Punch back in the day), would have to lose 99% of the rng they currently have and make Classic much less volatile, and possibly less interesting, in the process (always perfect IVs, always roll 4 moves of a small list instead of trying the whole level list, much tighter leash into the quality of mons they have, always making sure that a mon on the team has haze/roar, etc. These could work for classic+ modifiers but I don't think it plays to normal classic's strengths to make it the Kaizo hack of roguelikes). The player, from the starter screen, will have a plan with their team comp and generally have good synergy for a concise/co-ordinated plan that may require specific tools that the randomness of the mode can't prepare for.
Stretch goal-ish thing if I could code/updates go hard
- Daily Run starters would have their passives regardless of if you unlocked them or not
- I think it'd help give Daily Run a bit of spice to be played more. There's also an argument to overhaul it and remove the 'daily' part of it by just making it a mini-mode where you just randomize every time you start a save, acting like a safari zone of sorts with increased HA/shiny odds from what I already do and even allow you to catch the legendary at the end but only with pokeballs, that or change the ticket to a 25 pull per run.
- Complex Achievement Shop Ideas:
- Simplified evolutions table:you can spend points to unlock a table to lock off evolutions/forms, this can let all the galar/alola forms be basic item evo/level requirement without needing to be in the water loop, not care about time of day for the hisui forms, and for your legendary specify what form you wanna go with (whether its Black Kyurem or Calyrex Ice). Also Gracidea would be simplified so that it isn't time of day based at all. The funniest thing that could come out of this is that this is a way you could enable male Gardevoir and tomboy Gallade without damning Gallade into the item evo hell mines like some fags in the server, a physical Kirlia is worse than Meltan even with egg moves, it's bleak shit.
- Complex Item Changes:
- Memories/Plates (also known as, what the fuck are all of them doing in rogue tier???): A blank plate/memory is in rogue tier like the rest of the items but also work like tera shards where they become great tier items afterwards, can be achievement shopped and also part of the evo/form change item pity system I mentioned earlier. The plates/memories would just take a random common item slot on your rolls so you'll always get one each round. If wanting to be really fancy with the achievement shop, you could unlock the legend plate/memory for your run and they let you change into any type after a wave in the shop menu but still keep the rogue tier form change item properties (or make this baseline for how they're handled to begin with, there's many ways to go about these problems). There is no reason that you should have 18 items in the form change loot pool when you have a Silvally/Arceus on your team making megas an impossibility without a pity system, this also helps play into the idea of changing types with the mons to tech against pivotal waves when needed (the main difference how much immediate choice do you want to give the player).
- Teras: Have it where you can click to activate the shard at any time instead of being consumed immediately. Also have the 'get one every wave' thing Plates/Memories could have. This lets them be good actually instead of dogshit and also not just better memories/plates but for any mon (have more argument of making it permanent if the baseline for them is the legend plate/memory since with them they can change in between waves with complete control while tera shards are still rng).
- DNA Splicers: Just take the best stat between the two fusions instead of averaging them out. This lets the item be much more generically powerful instead of needing huge power on every run or something to make the item work, and has the added benefit of being more frankenstein-feeling as you're making your own functional legendaries. Are there OP combos with Shuckle and Rampardos? Yes, go ham with that for multiple deep classic runs as this is still a master rare item in classic we're talking about, this might be a change more influential to endless than to classic funnily enough.
- Proposed GMax Form Changes
- I'd make it where it's like a modular mega evolution, give the player some choice on the abilities if the g-max changes proposed to get rolled out. Some win with the change (gen 8 starters), others don't (Corviknight/Lapras), and I like the idea of Gmax being more than Megas that give you more HP by also giving them increased flexibility. Hopefully with other changes this can alleviate the wins, the gen 8 starters are nice as you don't need the HA for them to get the best form of their G-max but others do hate being stuck with an ability (if you had water absorb lapras, you were probably extremely afraid of waters, losing that for shell armor while gaining the increased stats could suck then since now you're easier to chip away at). This would need more time for me to look at the mons when they get the changes to see how I'd want to make this work, probably once it gets dulled out because I do hope more talk in the server gets made of it. In theory you could just make it where after a wave you can toggle the ability the mon has instead of tying it to what ability the mon started with for peak modularity. I'm no coder though so I'd probably try to evolve the ability of the mon based on what it had before so it offers the same utility via the same manner now that allows the mon to have its GMax form ability be what it started with before GMax.
The Pokerogue Changes I'd do
These are the changes I'd make to Pokerogue at a fundamental level, a big issue I see is the farming is absolutely fucking heinous. I enjoy some rng but classic, when enjoyed and not optimized with naganadel farms, is not exactly quick and I would like to let the player enjoy their time in classic without being bummed by the average jack and shit they'll get for it. This is basically the segment that is everything not to a specific pokemon inherently (that is for egg moves/passive changes), and is to the Pokerogue unique mechanics.
- (more of a maybe than a hard commit) Limit enemy trainers to only one Lum berry to help with allowing status that aren't sleep more of a chance to shine. Clicking willo three times to make Mega Ray more manageable just feels bad when screens is probably less headaches.
- Berry Pouch at 3 lets you have 100% berry refresh chance
- Mentioned as before, this was dumb to remove by the idea of "bad game design" for Metal Burst/Salt Cure: the Interactive Movie, I say let the berry cheese stay. In terms of Classic this meant jack shit because it's maybe 1 out of 50 runs you'll get this, with high luck.
- Allow Placeholder Shinies
- It's editing one if statement, I get the concept may've started by the art team but it is not a fancy recolor, it has mechancial value to the player and the artists can just suck it up or help come up with a new way for Luck/candies to be managed while being completely and utterly divorced from shinies. There are other methods that come close to this but all have some hangups (you could apply some pity effect if you rolled a non-existent rare/epic shiny or candy/luck buff to the incomplete mons but this dulls out some of the actually fine rng the game has and also doesn't equate 1-to-1 how the systems would be if it just worked for all starters as it was intended, the extra shinies is a layer of team building that's cut off just because the art team hasn't snorted the cereal bowl cocaine to do 50 shinies a week).
- Starter Cost Reduction changes
- I do think that you can have a mix of both balanced costs and also thematic have a place here, just make it where 5 and below is a semi-strict balancing thing (no 5 cost Tropius or 4-5 cost Fuecoco) while 6+ works by classifications. And on that I'd lower Gouging Fire to 6 to be with the other paradox legendary beasts, and all the 9 costs go back down to 8 (What did requiring cost reductions to pair your Rayquaza with Crobat do?). Furthermore I'd allow cost reductions to be done any number of times until the cost goes to 0 (and that costs can go down to zero, fuck the fraction shit, if a 1/2 cost mon, you just get a really expensive price increase on the reduction that'd reduce you to zero despite being the 1st/2nd cost reduction) but requiring much more candies past the 2nd cost reductions. If you wanna invest the time to do this, fuck it, go ahead and make you Zacian 0 cost or whatever.
- Referencing the cost starter changes here:
- All of the starter starters are 3 cost, having a baseline and sticking to it for them. Felt like I was taking drugs seeing Primarina the same cost as Eternal Floette.
- Bidoof is going back to 2, it's beyond a cruel joke to put him on par with Speed Boost Blaziken who is somehow not a 4 cost??? Why is Corviknight cheaper than god damn Inteleon of no coverage? Holy fuck this is a black book, cursed shit upon this here commit.
- Gracidea has a mechanical change at The End; you can choose day/night form at your discretion at the shop menu after a wave.
- Let's not incentivize resetting runs because you didn't into the right rotation to have the shaymin form you wanted on your rival or whatever. Can flavor that wave 191-200 is some time fucked place so it's day and night simultaneously considering the paradox mons. Another way of handling this is to allow the player to select the time of day they start the run in and give them an indicator of what the time of day will be for several key waves.
- This fork will be reverted.
- I get the idea of having the form change items require the other legendary to be caught to make them work but I think if doing that then every single legendary that has this can be knocked down by a point, epic tier be damned since their legendary state requires an extra legendary to be caught. You already have some ass rng for this, no need to make it worse by making Necrozma require two legendaries to be an option. This isn't mainline, some shit just doesn't translate well for a roguelike of this nature. Maybe if daily runs had the overhaul I mentioned earlier, acting as a way to catch your first legendary of mons (or a more complex solution like a trial mode that could be locked behind a mono-gen run completion to enable daily runs of a specific daily boss mon and have that be a way to allow targeting of these legendaries), then this may not seem too bad. Since I'm not touching random encounters (and admittedly that is something of high priority on the balance team for the main fork so who knows, this might change for the better, or worse in the future), this is a no go.
- Baseline Egg Gacha changes: I think with a loot system there are two main ways to go with it, either with rough rng but give the players the ability to target with the rng to make it work or that you give them generous rng while removing the targeting. The former means you can get something you want even if it requires some investment while the latter lets you get something good, even if not what you exactly wanted. To me Pokerogue has the worst of both and I feel like that with pokemon it's better to boost the random methods since it can point you to mons you normally wouldn't give a look at.
- 4x for shinies and (1/32 as your base chance) and 2x for HAs (I'm assuming it's the base wild chance considering the wiki doesn't specify).
- The pity is slightly reduced for epic, it's put to 50 instead of 59 on the idea that even if you get all repeat on the big trainers, if you have 6 new ribbons you'll get an epic no matter what, Legendaries are also put at 350 instead of 412 as a general buff.
- The region modifier is simplified so that all are on the same bracket instead of hisui forms being much rarer to hatch than alolans.
- Manaphy is a 1/4 instead of a 1/8 for the manaphy egg
- Legendary egg chance is a 1/128 for the baseline instead of the 1/256, takes the odds from classic.
- Double all the odds for the starter eggs and/or make them match the specialized gacha odds (equal or better shiny odds than shiny gacha, equal or better HA odds than the egg move up machine, etc.)
- Specific Egg Gacha changes:
- Legendary:
- You can't get random legendaries, it is just the banner legendary and the odds are 1/64, taking the odds from common rolls. More complex but I'd also just make the legendary re-roll on entering the shop instead of a daily thing. Sure you're having to go in and out of the shop for things but fuck it go brr.
- Shiny:
- Additional 4x shiny odds, yes you have a 1/8 chance of getting shinies and considering shiny placeholders + shiny candy modifiers, this is a lucrative way to get random eggs. Reminder that a random epic shiny is a mon's passive at minimum.
- Egg Move UP:
- 2x more odds for egg moves, also an additional 4x odds for HAs to give more value to this if you don't care about going hard for egg moves and instead want some hidden abilities.
- Legendary:
- Eggs from Starters:
- General cost reduction and also make it where you don't need to buy the passive for the mon to get eggs (Solar Power Ninetales is great, when you have Drought in the first place). I think late end are fine-ish I think, early numbers are smoking crack.
| Starter Cost | Egg Cost |
|---|---|
| 1 | 30 |
| 2 | 25 |
| 3 | 25 |
| 4 | 25 |
| 5 | 20 |
| 6 | 15 |
| 7 | 15 |
| 8 | 10 |
| 10 | 10 |
- Passive cost changes: Same thesis as before
| Starter Cost | Egg Cost |
|---|---|
| 1 | 40 |
| 2 | 35 |
| 3 | 30 |
| 4 | 25 |
| 5 | 20 |
| 6 | 15 |
| 7 | 15 |
| 8 | 10 |
| 10 | 10 |
- And finally, Friendship to Candy Changes:
| Starter Cost | Egg Cost |
|---|---|
| Note | It having seen a pokemon faint is worth 2 friendship while a rare candy is worth 10, fainting subtracts 10 friendship and friendship gain is doubled in Classic. |
| 1 | 20 (the only one that stayed the same) |
| 2 | 30 (down from 40) |
| 3 | 45 (down from 60) |
| 4 | 65 (down from 100) |
| 5 | 100 (down from 140) |
| 6 | 150 (down from 200) |
| 7 | 210 (down from 280) |
| 8 | 315 (down from 450) |
| 10 | 450 (down from 600) |
The Baseline Changes I'd do
This is more pokemon related mechanics, if it weren't reverted Protean/Libero being to gen 8 functionality would be the type of thing here. I will say, I do want to keep the experience to be mostly base-game like, obviously won't be 1-to-1 with how it is now (otherwise this wouldn't be here, not all of GF's decisions were good ones necessarily), but most of this will have a reference to how it was in-game.
- Dark Void gets 80 ACC again
- Darkrai won't need to be punished by GF's patented malice
- Grassy Glide goes to 60/70 BP
- Again, no need for big explanation. I think it's fine for it to have the BP it had at the start of gen 9, could be argued to go back to 70 BP for what it had before considering other reversions.
- Gale Wings goes back to gen 6 mechanics
- Now this is huge not only for you but also for the boss mons, I do implement a new gale wings passive in Togepi (more on that later) and not needing 100% HP to abuse it is insane, that said it's also still really rare. It's hard to defend as a passive since most flying types already have a good speed stat (the only other one considered was Murkrow but that has the issue of mostly getting dark moves via level up, not flying moves and you'd rather click Sucker Punch).
- Gengar gets Levitate back via HA path; Cursed Body Cursed Body Levitate
- I'm being cheeky here by having it where you play the inverse scenario with Ghastly/Haunter if you want Gengar with levitate, implementing both the old and new Gengar for those that want it but with a little risk in the process.
- Dauntless Shield/Intrepid Sword work more than once per battle
- This is more for the mons that get these abilities as passives than for the legendaries that start with them though this can be nice as it'll help Zamazenta be a pivot more.
- Archen's HA is replaced to be Hustle
- This will be explained within the passive section but tl;dr is that I think how the trace passive situation with Golisopod/Archeops/Slaking was handled sloppily. There is a reason I am putting links to the table of contents at the bottom in case you want to cross reference (or use ctrl-f and one of the headers). I have spent a lot of autism on this because I think the concept is amazing, and now I haven't touched Pokemon Emerald Rogue 2? All I know is that apparently you can get five abilities on a mon or something and it changes a lot of things from the base game according to one screenshot I saw of Ceruledge. More specifically as to why Hustle when I talk about the mon's passive changes.
- The ruin legendaries get 10 bst back
- These are sub legendaries, they have 580 bst, not 570.
- (maybe) Update some of the legendaries level up movesets.
- I can get it taking time to get STAB on these giant lords of power, but unless blessed with rng Celebi's only grass STAB options are Magical Leaf at level 10 and Leaf Storm at level 90, what ze fuck? This is not the only legendary with egregiously bizarre level up sets but this is also something that might be fixed with cheaper starter eggs, better random eggs, and if the devs develop TM shop.
Passive Changes
- Warning this shit is long. Not only will I explain the new passives, but also my thought process why in actual depth. For this I recommend getting familiar with three links Pokerogue pokedex, the Coverage Calculator, and the Damage Calc, for these are likely to be reference a lot for both passives and egg moves. For the theory of the passives/egg moves, as outlined before, is functionally "Great and fitting for the mon first, whether it breaks classic second", these should help the mon as well as fit the mon, not just one or the other. And these will focus on helping the mon before trying to fit flavor (no, I won't fucking cursed body ninetales, I don't hate the fluffy fox) but at the same point won't completely disregard flavor (I have one instance of huge power on my passive changes, and it's a reversion to a change rather than a new thing).
- When doing damage calcs, I give the player pokemon perfect IVs and customizable nature while the opponent's pokemon gets perfect IVs but a neutral nature. This in my opinion is the best way to represent the average enemy pokemon, sometimes it might have high defense IVs with a bold nature, other times it'll have a speed boosting nature instead. Without any form of baseline to go with, trying to leverage a baseline for damage is insane. When referencing 100/100 bulk (Hp/related defense), that's Mew's level of bulk who in terms of classic, is very tanky, it's unlikely that you'll find mons as tanky as Mew. For 120/120 bulk references, that's where Arceus comes in, and note that a huge focus on the calcs will be on neutral targets, meaning I may be talking about "Mew"/"Mew Bulk" even if it's a dark type clicking dark STAB because for the calcs to be a neutral hit, I made Mew, the 100/100 baseline into a different type. Also note that while I may reference damage calcs, they are more of a frame of reference due to the damage calc not being able to easily tack on multiple abilities for a mon and/or the boss shields, but give an estimation of how they work (if you can ohko arceus on a neutral hit, it's safe to say you hit really fucking hard).
| Starter | New Passive | Why |
|---|---|---|
| Vulpix | Solar Power | A few are planned to lose their current passive and I'm on the boat Solar Power's too good for Vulpix. The issue with the mon was damage and when compared to its alola counterpart, that's the best way to wedge disparity between the two in function. With A-Ninetales stronger utility with Aurora Veil + Snow not being as strong a damage boost as sun, making Ninetales more specialized into abusing its own weather I think is the way to go. Now you could argue for a more generic damage passive like Sheer Force except that Solar Power hits critical damage thresholds, with a Timid nature and after a Tail Glow, solar power lets your flamethrowers OHKO things like Arceus and even brute through resists depending on items you get (calcium and charcoal and making Slowking toast isn't an impossibility, otherwise you always 2hko). Sheer Force in these situations would require you running Fire Blast, and while 85 ACC is good, misses will happen in the land of pokerogue and while wide lens do exist, rng is a fickle thing still. Now the concern about the mon's longevity is a real concern but I do have that solved with a small egg move change. In the future with fifth egg moves, base egg moves, and TM shop, there is a world where it could be Sheer Force to let it more better function as a fast support mon (5th egg move could be parting shot, base egg moves add baby-doll eyes and healing wish, and notable TMs include calm mind, reflect, solar beam, weather ball, charm and toxic) by not killing itself while still getting damage since Fire Blast does hit the important thresholds at least, and maybe in this future world wide lens is easier to get to help with the annoying accuracy moments. |
| Drowzee | Bad Dream | This is being changed because devs are being butts about Dark Void or something. The balance team wants the reversion on Dark Void, I want it, you want it, Darkrai didn't deserve the dicking because of a funny painter in VGC, classic moment of GF malice. I also did update its egg moves to help with offering a lot more team utility instead of spamming Lumina Crash after sleeping a mon. |
| Togepi | Gale Wings | With the gale wings change this becomes a real passive and Togetic is one of the slowest flying types that could make use of this to be cheeky. Either always trying to serene grace Air Slash flinch but now with priority or priority healing with Roost. Also with 5th egg moves, |
| Slakoth | Trace | This'll need context. So before Slaking/Archeops/Gollisopod got HAs, it was planned that their passives would be Trace, this caused such a conniption on the server because they felt this removed their identity as Trace passive would overwrite the shit abilities they have. I get the argument which is why each of the three is being handled differently, Golisopod is keeping vanilla implementation, you get his HA and he gets to stay in without issue and be decent. Slaking is getting Trace because he is a lazy piece of shit, even if he was going to start getting 'serious', you think he wouldn't just copy whatever is in front of him, being lazy in getting 'serious'? Trace is fitting on Slaking and now you get to meme with Slaking unleashed instead of being Giga Impact with extra steps. |
| Numel | Desolate Land | Stamina on 70/70/75 bulk... Why yes camerupt is arguably frailer than Mightyena considering no Intimidate, even neutral hits really hurt and the mon has no speed. Functionally this is water absorb meets Flash Fire and is fitting for the living volcano that got a mega, and if you get the mega on Numel, go off my queen. Also good luck against the boss version whenever Maxie pulls it out, this will make him much more threatening too. I'd laugh if this would make Maxie too hard, could make it where the first fight he doesn't have the boss for his mega like is the planned case with Guzma's Mega Pinsir. |
| Seviper | Prankster | The mon gets a surprising utility on level up, Glare, Haze, Coil, Swagger, Screech, and Gastro Acid are all tools this gets on level up. It also can help in the egg move side as No Retreat lets you get +1 omni boost and with the boost, Seviper's not half bad. Able to take hits a bit, dish some out and/or offer utility. Could have the issue of getting it in exactly but grass/fighting/bug resists should be good to work with. And while this mon may be focused onto sharpening its tail for Zangoose, it is still a snake, probably would've whispered in Eve's ear if he was in Eden. Also this is an instance of a prankster mon using it to be greedy instead of just priority status, there isn't a mon that tries to leverage priority set-up. |
| Solrock | Orichalcum Pulse | Just extra help for a somewhat shitter mon, gets sun + Tough Claws boost and it's noted as being an old star-born rock, and while new to Hoenn, being from space has to have meant it's ancient. Enough to count for the past paradox theming for the ability. |
| Bagon | Adaptability | As said in the egg move changes, they are planning to potentially change it and this is more here to cover my bases, the mon's keeping Adaptability. |
| Bronzor | Drizzle | The mon's pokedex mentions being able to summon the rain. While initial plans were to let it be greedy with Primordial Sea, being able to completely shut off Fire moves while having levitate to do things itself, I decided to leverage more into a support role that it is right now with the Glare egg move and its level-up moveset. In a TM shop world I could easily see myself giving this Primordial Sea since it'd have Calm Mind to be able to be a self set-up sweeper even if reduces Heatproof's merit (where now you can use it + drizzle to make it a fire resist switch in or have both Heatproof + Levitate). Press F for being weak to Shadow Ball again. |
| Woobat | Soul Heart | This was lost because of fears of it being "Too Good", and considering the heart-motif for it, I'm letting it stay instead of abusing Simple Opportunist. This is where it might be more 'sidegrade' than outright buff/nerf considering Opportunist is cracked against bosses and with the evil teams there's more bosses in a run but Soul Heart helps in a sweeping role without being reliant on bosses (the zero bosses for the E4 and champion). |
| Dwebble | Anger Shell | So are Rocky Payload or Dry Skin (was considered as well) better? Absolutely but I do think the meme interaction of Healing + Sturdy + Anger Shell should exist and Crustle is probably the best instance of that. Anger Shell gives you a mini Shell-Smash after hitting below 50% HP and with Sturdy, you can't be ohko'd so as long as you can heal enough from your STAB Leech Life, you can keep refreshing this until you hit the singularity point of sweeping. Also hitting +3 can be nice after a shell smash (+3 mighty cleave has a small chance to ohko 100/100 neutral bulk, let alone a SE hit or the fact you have sturdy so you're able to comfortably 2hko mons while being faster than them) as can the boost when going for a more defense set but given a last gasp of offensive oomph against a mon with more moderate speed (+1 lets you go pass base 75 speed, base 85 if jolly). |
| Archen | No Guard | And now Archeops. Golisopod is a simple, 'get HA, get decent mon', Slaking is 'get passive, get really good mon', with Archeops it is a quest. First you have Hustle, you don't become a cripple at half health but are stuck with unreliable accuracy on moves, so good luck hitting that Rock Slide/Wing Attack and not dying, still giving risk to the mon by virtue of its fickle nature (the mon has issues with flying despite wings in the pokedex entries), but with No Guard you get to complete that with a huge boost in power. And even without the HA No Guard's pretty appreciated as Rock Slide doesn't have 100 AC and now it does. Not the best argument but with the idea of giving it something in alternative to Defeatist, I think this is the best one can get (and this scales even harder with the egg moves but more on them later). |
| Skiddo | Seed Sower | The idea is to better differentiate it from Rillaboom by being able to reset its own Grassy Terrain, while it can have an issue getting in with the base defense, the solid HP + recovery could let it take some hits with the grass pelt boost. |
| Xerneas | Simple | Geomancy, +4 Speed/Sp.Atk/Sp.Def, one move. Brr. In all seriousness it's also based on the simple idea that it's about life and to be something other than Misty Terrain because on a fairy type it's, extremely suspect but more on Misty Terrain later. That said Harvest is not a bad alternative either considering you're already having a pickup mon or two when using a legendary until you have a good bit of cost reductions. |
| Xurkitree | Motor Drive | Transistor is solid in that it boosts damage. Problem, the mon has Tail Glow, base 173 special attack, and Beast Boost, damage is not something it needs more of even if using Thunderclap (at +3 and a modest nature, you have an 87.5% chance of ohkoing Mew and always 2hko Arceus level bulk). But speed boost doesn't exactly fit and feels a bit too dull in terms of play-patterns. Thus Motor Drive, you get a speed boost if hit by an electric attack while getting a complete immunity to it. Sure you are still suck with only two resists to easily get in but now one of them is a complete immunity with a speed boost and 83/71/71 bulk, while not great, can be enough to live some decent hits. You're not just a Thunderclap bot. |
| Duraludon | Drizzle | The mon that hates rain in pokedex entries also has a resist to waters and its evolution a gen later makes it want to be in rain. Sure GF, I believe you, as much as I believe you'll launch a decent game and not a buggy mess. This was rejected for power level concerns and I say let the mon be good as more than a Flash Cannon bot (egg move changes do help by making it Tachyon Cutter but eh,), besides Electro Shot you also get the benefit of having a fire resist instead of a neutrality for both forms, also if leaning into GMax Duraludon in a TM Shop world you get much better use from Thunder. |
| Quaxly | Misty Surge | Misty Terrain has it where grounded mons take 50% less dragon type moves and can't be hit with statuses, which makes this part magic guard for a fairy type considering they're already immune to dragon moves. But if on a non-fairy type, it can help the mon have more defensive utility, easier time getting in with an extra resist that you'll really want (mega Ray is terror incarnate and dragons are scary in general), while also being immune to statuses, helping with a utility role (base egg moves gives it flip turn and roost) alongside a sweeper role. As for flavor, it's a peacock and I figured that perhaps misty terrain could be seen as more 'fancy terrain', being fog for a show-off to go off like its Spongebob Squarepants: The Movie. |
| Pawmi | Fur Coat | I believe in utility Pawmi a lot and think Transistor on an electric type is being used too much and not even that good for the mon considering it's unique move removes its electric typing and can't be used again, so while nice for a one-shot effect, not something you can spam without volt switch of which is TM-locked or Tera'd but Tera sucks (even then Plasma Fists + Iron Fist, the HA on the mon, is Double Shock but spammable and the mon does get Close Combat on level up). Not only can this help the mon just get in much easier with the extra defense to click buttons, and with an egg move change be able to have a chance at sweeping, it also helps it work in more utility focused fields. The mon gets Nuzzle, Revival Blessing, and Entrainment if desperately needed. |
| Fittle | Misty Surge | Same reasons as Quaquaval is getting it. Espathra gives me show-off aristocrat energies and even gets Dazzling Gleam to work as a dragon killer that isn't a steel/fairy. |
| Tinktatink | Huge Power | So while the mon does make use of Corviknights to make its hammer, even though in theory it can't win against them at all if going by pokemon battling, it's also a 2 foot tall 20 pound midget carrying a 220 pound hammer. It's the size of your desk chair and is swinging around a silent Chris-Chan, has the rabbit motif for the ability and is keeping this. You may now click more than Gigaton Hammer to not be embarrassed against Cloyster smashing and winning. |
| Iron Thorns | Electric Surge | While Sand Stream is nice as incidental chip + a sp.def boost, I feel like that gets in the way of this being a Tyranitar of the future. It evolved to embrace electricity instead of dark caves so it should better help fulfill the roll of a tyranitar in the future by setting up E-Terrain for itself and friends. Now admittedly the cost required to have this with another paradox mon means you need two cost reductions to do that but even for itself it is nice as a nice damage boost to give Plasma Fists that extra punch for Shift Gear sets. |
| Gimmighoul | Contrary | It's keeping it on the flavor of 'the rich gets richer' and while Honey Gather is more dough, you already have that with the sig move, just dumb that it happened and why not. |
| Koraidon | Photosynthesis | Revert to monkey, was changed to Opportunist in the first place from a fear of being "Too Good" from the balance team. |
| Miraidon | Quark Drive | Transcend past monkey, maybe Opportunist is better as you can get a ton of boosts from bosses but I think the chef's kiss of this is just too fitting. |
| Gouging Fire | Prism Armor | Alright so this might be more of my out-there thing but I don't like that that the three paradox legendary beasts have beast boost. Is it fitting? Yes but I feel like they could have more individualized passives since they're more different between each other than the regular legendary beasts/kanto birds. And for this you get some extra defense against scary earthquakes/stone edges, Fur Coat didn't feel like it fit, nor did the common immunity passives. This could be Intimidate but Prism Armor has the benefit of helping with special attacks and the mon easily has it with that faceplate. |
| Raging Bolt | No Guard | And this is a meme one, currently most/all no guard mons are physical and Raging Bolt is a solid one that can use this. Zap Cannon on level up is a nice STAB move to click when you don't need the prioirty of Thunderclap and allows much more in terms of egg moves, which it doesn't need much considering Electric/Dragon is a good combo, and you get Calm Mind for setup. This will come with an egg move overhaul but on that later. |
| Pecharunt | Serene Grace | Better Toxic Chain and kind of represents his charisma to get mon on his chain, makes Malignant Chain have 100% toxic + confusion chance, going really well with Hex for a stab combo alongside helping utility sets with more accurate Toxic/Confuse Ray that is also damage. |
Egg Move Changes
- Just a reminder to that there is a prelude over on the passives about how I handled things here and explaining how/where I got it. And that for the table it's common/common/common/rare for the order on the egg moves.
| Starter | New Egg Moves (new ones in bold) | Why |
|---|---|---|
| Vulpix | Moonblast/Morning Sun/Matcha Gotcha/Tail Glow | So Ice Beam was here because its a reference to Alola Ninetales, that said it was completely redundant and didn't give anything for Ninetales besides a SE hit on grounds, when you have STAB + Sun to make the fire move better anyways. Matcha Gotcha still has the SE hit on grounds, but also rocks and waters, while also being healing for Solar Power making the passive work. |
| Drowzee | Recover/Glitzy Glow/Baddy Bad/Dark Void | Better stab with solid coverage that sets up screens even if they don't do much offensively, Hypno is in a pretty rough state, this gives coverage while also getting hitting hard. |
| Houndoom | Hydro Steam/Fiery Wrath/Solar Beam/Torch Song | Moved Hydro Steam down since without sun it is just an 80 BP water move and with other unique moves like Matcha Gotcha also being fair game on common, I think its fine (and also helps with sun teams if he's your sun abuser because of the mega form), so better fire STAB in the name of Torch Song that can boost. |
| Slakoth | Raging Bull/Drain Punch/Knock Off/Skill Swap | Raging Bull is here as a good normal stab for the common move slot, more damage than Body Slam and Skill Swap is staying in case you wanted to skill swap truant for whatever reason, Facade isn't good considering the lack of Guts. |
| Ralts | Psyblade/Bitter Blade/Boomburst/No Retreat | No move changes, just swapping what's common and what's rare. Does this make the most sense balance wise? Probably not considering pixilate boomburst mega gardevoir is dumb, but I figured that the moves dedicated to one evolution line should be common while the setup move for both forms is made rare. |
| Gulpin | Strength Sap/Take Heart/Earth Power/Malignant Chain | So we give the mon all special egg moves, it only has Gunk Shot, Body Slam, and Pound for physical moves via level up, and we gave it growth? When it has no desire to be in the sun either from type/ability? Yeah I have no idea why it had Growth in the first place unless its some anime joke or maybe something with how it's smol as a Gulpin and grows as Swalot... Was Growth a dick joke? |
| Mawhile | Accelerock/Magical Torque/Earthquake/Shift Gear | So most mons that get Shift Gear don't really need the +2 speed, this one does which I think makes it need, +2 lets you barely outspeed base 115 speed mons like Mega Rayquaza, all while being Adamant. It is strong as fuck, but it's at a price. No Double Iron Bash. I could not in good faith say the move could be common because Shift Gear is just as fucking insane and truly has the oomph of being Rare. And as for Bullet Punch, you'll get Accelerock alongside Sucker Punch for priority focused sets using Swords Dance when the TM shop is a thing while also being rock coverage, spitting rock from crushing a boulder, it may not be stab but it helps against the Charizards and Talonflames that EQ couldn't KO (you can ohko them as mega Mawhile even at +0, as for base Mawile... You were already crying but at least steel/fairy is a busted typing so Shift Gear is free a lot of the time and +1 sheer force Iorn Head/Magical Torque hits decently hard despite the base 85 attack stat). |
| Carvanha | Thunder Fang/Swords Dance/Crunch/Fishious Rend | The classic balance team were cowards example, it got Surging Strikes as Strong Jaw fishious rend was "Too Good", look at the side tails, this mon can Rend two towers with em. |
| Seviper | Ice Beam/Bitter Blade/Obstruct/No Retreat | Obstruct gives you a protect that scouts moves while also lowering enemy defense by two stages if they made contact, helps with support roles and no retreat sets as you can lower their defense for Bitter Blade to hit harder or just to see what the opponent will click. |
| Latios | Oblivion Wing/Nasty Plot/Searing Shot/DEnergy | So while the balance team wants to make the Lati twins a Coffin of Leyley joke with the egg moves but then make them have different passives... I don't get it either. I'm going to actually grace them as different god damn mons. Latios has the goal of more immediacy with the damage, you go in, NP and spam DEnergy with Oblivion Wing in case you took a hit and need some healing via recover or Oblivion Wing, but if you can't ohko with your DEnergy, then you could be in danger since you're stuck with unboosted defenses. Also without Quiver Dance you'll need multiple vitamins or an x-speed to outspeed mega ray when sweeping your rival. |
| Latias | Core Enforcer/Cosmic Power/Torch Song/QD | And the goal for Latias is be of a slower pace befitting the defenses and fucking defense passive, sweeping by healing and chipping before nuking with a STAB move. Cosmic Power lets you try to wall against Kingambit and kill with Torch Song, before setup sweeping on the team, QD lets you try to be fast boosting with Stored Power but at the cost of less raw damage and more value on coverage since you don't have tinted lens, making you have 4 move slot syndrome trying to decide what you want. This is a technical nerf but still should be amazing, the both fo them, since they're working with strong moves/passives and have really solid stats, Arceus help us if old Soul Dew is real. |
| Rayquaza | V-Create/Dragon Darts/DEnergy/Oblivion Wing | Yes I'm undoing 99% DEnergy changes on the high cost mons, the idea is that they were too good "Too Good" - 2k24 the Sword of Damocleas. Also apparently the same reason they'll still have held items spawn even after you don't have room to put them on your team. Give it next patch for when Naganadel will get hit with the nerf hammer and lose DEnergy next alongside a Baton Pass & Sleep clause for classic when Spore/Smash Pass/Naganadel are used for farming again. Is DEnergy fucking insane on the mon? Yes, it's fucking Rayquaza, fucking +1 DAscent coming in to ohko Xerneas if you have a protein or Sharp Beak on him. You can destroy an orphanage but you can kick a puppy the way back home, that's going too far. Beyond raw memes this also has some theming with being STAB hp-based spread move to share with Eruption and Water Spout. |
| Jirachi | Combat Torque/Iron Head/Shift Gear/Sacred Fire | So this idea I can't even say is my own, someone from the server came with the idea and I decided to run with it for proposed changes. So the baseline is Shift Gear + 3 flinch moves, was this done by Ball Fetch Whiscash mam? You get your STAB flinch move because no TM shop and no Iron Head on level up. Shift Gear gets down to common because for this mon it's just Dragon Dance and while it is a great move, you are going to want to click it multiple times if you want more damage (base 100 speed is great, 100 attack is just alright even at +1 without a damage passive, Shift Gear giving +2 speed instead of +1 doesn't matter for the mon unless setting up against a wounded boss mon?), though it helps with giving you the speed to go against mega ray and start the flinch cheese. Combat Torque is 100 BP fighting type body slam, great coverage and spreads paralysis. Finally is Sacred Fire, both for good coverage but also for more utility-based sets since you get 100% to burn mons which can make it hard for them to hurt you if they're a physical attacker. |
| Shellos | Bouncy Bubbles/Chilly Reception/Freeze Dry/Steam Eruption | Idea is to give it a pivoting move with Regenerator while also more team support options. Snow only matters for ice mons and blizzard, of which both are really nice things to pair gastrodon with as they melt the only weakness it has, Grass types. Also the fact it pivots and sets Snow means your snow abuser gets five turns with the weather instead of the standard 4 turns, letting you make the most of it even harder alongside procing regenerator on the mon. Finally for the synergy, Gastrodon helps ice types by resisting 3 out of the 5 weaknesses (fire/rock/steel). Slowking, a regenerating Chilly Reception fellow, also does this but for fire/steel/fighting, so in case you're more afraid of stone edge versus close combat and want ground coverge, then this can work really well. And aside from snow teams... This is still god damn teleport, you're getting a mon in for free while it regenerates off the damage but with the benefit you could greed with Blizzard as your ice coverage instead of Ice Beam for that bit more damage and ice types are locked into their own little corner past the water loop so the chances this pivot might boost them is rare. |
| Snover | High Horsepower/Strength Sap/Matcha Gotcha/Sappy Seed | Downgraded Matcha from rare to common and removed Growth, I get wanting to try and make mixed Abomasnow work but holy fuck give it no retreat or something. +1 isn't enough with the attack stats here, and the other boosts from NR could work for both, the speed mostly helping base Abomasnow over the mega. That said I still think a boosting move that doesn't help with defenses on a mon with base 30/60 speed and 7 weaknesses extremely cursed. So why not help the physical side by giving it a solid alternative to Wood Hammer while giving more healing options on the special sets or even allowing full mixed sets like Blizzard/Sappy Seed/Auoura Veil/High Horsepower, or a utility set with Veil/Strength Sap/Sappy Seed or Matcha Gotcha/Blizzard? Like I get boosting moves for mixed sets are barren but surely we can do better. |
| Palkia | Recover/Take Heart/Water Spout/DEnergy | Searing Shot is better coverage than Aura Sphere/Earth Power if going Take Heart/Recover/two attacks with Water Spout but a neutral WS > SE Searing Shot, so the only benefit is coverage against grasses but now you're walled by waters. And even then it's not like the other STAB move, Spacial Rend, is that much weaker (150 BP versus 200 BP) and comes with the benefit of not crying against waters or dragons. There could also be the idea of helping sets without the egg moves where if you are wounded you still have a big move to click but Palkia has base 100 speed so it's not like its slow either, I get the change but still feels bleh. It also does take some time for the meaty STABs but you're still just at the mid game with a mon that has 150 base Sp.Atk, a great defensive typing, and great bulk and speed, and cracked fucking level up coverage. |
| Darkrai | Fiery Wrath/Searing Shot/Moonblast/Make it Rain | So with Dark Void being unpunished, Spore isn't as mission critical anymore and I think Make it Rain, not only acting as coverage against fairies, has a thematic throughline with the horrifying curses of King Midas or the trope of people drowning in their own wealth, could do something like Malignant Chain for the fear of snakes too but Midas one went harder in my brain. It's also a 120 BP steel move that generates you money. |
| Snivy | Clanging Scales/Make it Rain/Fleur Cannon/Overheat | The raging french king is here to get some fucking coverage that's rare worthy. Snivy without some base egg moves (glare and synthesis) has the issue of extremely being Contrary sweep or bust, I'd do more changes if they were implemented but until then, 4 contrary moves. For the offensive, fire/steel/fairy/grass is perfect coverage, dragon's main value is for when you are getting the egg moves and/or you want to try defense buffs. A part of me wanted to do Armor Cannon so that you get really strong Fire moves but it's boosting the defenses instead of sp.atk but I couldn't think of a good flavor defense and Overheat just does a lot for the mon. Another one that was denied under the 'Too good' but I think for a time Flamethrower was also contended heavily too when it originally had Burning Jealousy. Snivy must've given trauma to the balance team, maybe they participated on the Gen 5 OU wars of Black 2/White 2 as it was recent and still see the Leaf Storm to this day. |
| Archen | Roost/Stone Edge/Floaty Fall/Precipice Blades | Roost is here as something to cover for Defeatist on your quest to the other three, Floaty Fall and Stone Edge are common level STAB upgrades but have imperfect accuracy but are perfectly fine, even if at times frustrating, on defeatist sets but with Hustle + No Guard you can just delete mons with perfect coverage, no resists on the three so you have a free 4th move, could be Roost, U-turn, maybe Scary Face for an eternatus sac? |
| Gothita | Milk Drink/Moonblast/Aura Sphere/Lumina Crash | I'm letting you have goth mommy/daddy, both have the same PP, and for the pre-evolutions you could just say they're getting bottled milk from the Big Bang to help comprehend instead the end of the universe and try to comfort their trainer of their own god damn mortality. |
| Reshiram | Roost/Take Heart/Eruption/DEnergy | Same reason as with Palkia except they were gonna give it Core Eruption in DEnergy's place (at common though), I say nah, let the mighty dragons be mighty, even worse when it's not like the mon even cares about having a third type for coverage at all as there's only 5 mons that resist Fire/Dragon, Azumarill, Diance, Tapu Fini, Carbink, and Mega Altaria, if it's not Tera'd into Fairy or Dragon. |
| Meloetta | Torch Song/Clang. Soul/Triple Arrows/Boomburst | The balance team is setting a good rule that you don't talk about a good mon to them because otherwise it's getting nerfed. Torch Song too fitting to be removed by one's own PTSD, that said I am fine for removing Quiver Dance cosnidering that the dancing form's the physical attacker, base meloetta's the singing type. That said weep because it's the 81st mixed attacker getting Clang. Soul because mixed boosting move leaves you with three options, No Retreat (nice but requires right theming and a mon that needs the HP and is good with just going +1, Kyruem by beloved), Shell Smash (busted as fuck, strict theming), and Clang. Soul (can boost more than once if you get healing and the most spammable-ish in flavor? In this case, she could just be writing Soul). If I get a 5th egg move to work with, physical ghost type coverage so that Meloetta P. can get omniversal coverage with just two moves, fitting the Soul + Relic Song. |
| Skiddo | Spiky Shield/High Horsepower/Stone Axe/Sappy Seed | Spiky Shield helps with playing the long game with the recovery from Grassy Terrain while also chipping away at the opponent to counteract any possible healing they may've had. The mon can play at a slower pace than with Rillaboom, not needing the priority attack. |
| Honedge | Tachyon Cutter/Poltergeist/Bitter Blade/Behemoth Blade | So the main reason it's getting changed to Shadow Bone is because of reliability, where random trainers/mons may not have items early on and it's mostly exclusively for your gym leaders/evil leaders/rival/wild bosses, the parts of a classic run that might have you pay attention. The thing is that Poltergeist does break damage thresholds that Shadow bone can't (100/100 bulk ohko at +2 for example, Shadow Bone would require vitamins to do it), and the mon already has a mixed set tech'd for Eternatus with Bitter Blade/King's Shield/Metal Sound/Tachyon Cutter, Poltergeist in my mind is the same sort of thing but for the trainer batters mentioned earlier. It sucks against wild mons but surely with 5 other mons on the team you can leverage something to be more spec'd for wild mons while Aegislash handles trainers much better, you have to do the same with the aforementioned mixed set where Metal Sound is worthless on an opponent that can switch. |
| Goomy | Dragon Hammer/Recover/Take Heart/Make it Rain | This is a response to GF cruelty, Goodra, especially hisui goodra, can make a mean curse mon, the issue is that they have jack and shit for physical moves. Hisui gets Body Slam and Iron Head while Kalos gets Power Whip, Aqua Tail, and Body Slam. Neither get STAB from level up or even the mainline egg moves, it's bleak, and both already have a decent water move to click in Muddy Water. Yes it's not 100 ACC, hits allies and the burn is better than ACC drop but at least it isn't Iron Tail. Dragon Hammer at least lets both forms curse and click STAB so its not walled by a water type. Admittedly this is a mon that will greatly appreciate TM shop since there is a ton of good physical coverage that can make a curse set sing. |
| Xerneas | Searing Shot/Take Heart/Strength Sap/Stored Power | With the simple passive comes changes here, the idea being that with Strength Sap you can hopefully get to the moment of safely pressing Geomancy to go +4 and then nuke with Stored Power (or still do heavy damage with a 140 BP psychic move). Searing Shot is coverage since Fire/Psychic/Fairy hits a lot of mons and covers the weaknesses quite well. Take Heart is if you are fine with dropping the speed boost from Geomancy and clicking buttons one at a time, with Strength Sap helping when you do take a few hits since you're lacking the speed boost. |
| Zygarde | Dragon Darts/Double Iron Bash/Heal Order/Clang Soul | Omni boost is nice since there is this little move called Core Enforcer while boosting the defenses is nice but the big thing is this, Clang Soul helps you get into the threshold to go into 100 percent as it takes away some HP in the process and considering Zygarde 50%'s 108/121/95 bulk, it's a good chance you won't be ko'd at +1 defenses. And for Zygarde 10%, dragon/ground can force a number of switches and has a ton of resists so you should be able to get to a position for an omni boost and once TM shop is real, Dragon Dance will be on the menu so you won't be lacking for a more normal boosting move even if not having the defense boost means you can't get to +2 as easily sometimes. |
| Tapu Koko | Magical Torque/TAxel/Hone Claws/Bolt Strike | So the reason this is losing Rising Voltage is that with Transistor it outdamaged every option you had, a neutral Rising Voltage did more damage than a SE Magical Torque so you were best as a special attacker with physical coverage (Plasma fists was the button against flying types and TAxel for Ground types), I'm going to let the mon be a physical attacker instead of stuck under GF's bloody malice like Goomy. It originally had Bolt Beak but I figured that it could be unique having Hone Claws and a +1 Bolt Strike does hit harder than Bolt Beak so this is a net damage boost but you have to get into the position to click Hone Claws, Hone Claws also helps with TAxel's accuracy to be less annoying and I figured a more fitting thing (the tapu has claws to sharpen while holding the mask or even the mask's beak as claws). Making this mon be a mixed attacker is on par with making Articuno a mixed attacker, I get the move is uniquely boosted by terrain but we already have 6 with e-terrain and rising voltage as a main combo, the terrain does boost moves other than Rising Voltage. |
| Yamper | Ice Fang/Swords Dance/Thunder Fang/Fishous Rend | So the idea with it was that Zippy Zap was busted when you didn't have the passive but had increased damage as E-Speed with sheer force but no evasion boosts, my issue with that is that this mon has base 121 speed, you're natively outspeeding Mega Rayquaza (and aren't weak to priority like Sucker Punch or Ice Shard). Swords Dance in the old iteration did fit as a rare egg move as it'd actually push the mon into giving a fuck. That said it was still heinous, and if Zippy Zap is redundant I have room for a move, a new rare egg move. And funny that water/electric/ice is perfect coverage except against Shedninja, thus why it got Fishious Rend. Strong Jaw functionally gives you STAB on Fishious Rend, which makes it the strongest move on neutral but in a general situation your best choice is going for SE hits, Ice fang > Fishious Rend on a grass, Thunder Fang > Fishious Rend on a water, etc. Now to the more important question, how the fuck does the dog "rends the target with its hard gills", good question, the same answer for how that equates to a biting move. And as for balance, one might argue it's better than Gyarados because of the boosting move, you still have the issue of getting the mon into the field with 69/60/60 defenses, pure electric typing, and probably dying to any revenge attack. |
| Pawmi | Bulk Up/Drain Punch/Ice Punch/Plasma Fists | Let me see here, base 100+ speed, has priority. There's value to this in a competitive format like smogon where you're more reliably seeing the high speed demons but Classic is closer to random battles most of the time, sure a Tapu Koko could show up once in a run from a champion or late gym leader but even among legendaries you outspeed a good bit of them if the idea was some last chip as a sacrifice. But with its high speed you can safely press bulk up and barring the EQ, be decently safe with fast STAB drain punches to keep yourself topped off while going for a bulk up sweep, especially when Fur Coat is taken into account. If there was a 5th egg move slot, I would put Rage Fist as coverage against psychics/ghosts and also works with Fur Coat/Bulk Up memes. |
| Wattrel | Nasty Plot/Earth Power/Bleakwind Storm/Electro Shot | So the egg moves you can load up on right now make zero god damn sense, let's give the mon that wants to be in rain for hurricane to actually be reliable STAB Heat Wave for... Steelix? Tailwind procs Wind Power but Wind Power is just Nasty Plot but only for your next electric type attack, sadly it sucks. As a 5th egg move it could get Tailwind to help be a support mon that can bite back for rain teams in the doubles mode, but until then it keeps Nasty Plot and is just a simple, but effective, special attacker. This mon likes being in the rain and so it's keeping Electro Shot for the rain abuser memes, he's also an electric immunity for rain which they do appreciate. Electro Shot is rare egg move but the common ones can be Earth Power as perfect coverage, while Bleakwind Storm is more reliable flying STAB it can't learn by TM, trust in wide lens. |
| Miradon | Ice Beam/Rising Voltage/Clang Soul/DEnergy | Same reason as the other mons, it's keeping the funny STAB boost considering it even gets native synergy with Parabolic charge via level up. Is a hadron engine + Quark Drive DEnergy from Miraidon insane? Yes, may I remind you this is a gen 9 box legendary, the same gen that birthed Palafin Hero and Gholdengo. What the fuck else did you expect with giving this mon anything? The one funny thing is that DEnergy is bad if you're trying to use Clang Soul since you have to heal back the damage you took and the cost of Clang Soul itself, which might be a balancing act of sorts since the mon can't boost otherwise. |
| Raging Bolt | Morning Sun/Electro Drift/Magma Storm/Sheer Cold | So Morning Sun's for the calm mind sets, Electro Drift is for a STAB upgrade from Discharge in the case you don't have No Guard, Magma Storm is a trapping move (which means that no guard is also supporting the calm mind sets a bit and with protosynthesis/morning sun, this gets boosted with sun support like Ninetales or Torkoal) with at least 75 ACC that also is good coverage, and then Sheer Cold for the biggest "FUCK YOU" you can muster. Thank Arceus wild mons don't get egg moves but the egg list is part general upgrades and also part supporting the passive, hopefully with the economy change on candies from shinies, friendship, and the costs, that shinies are more common than normal. |
| Pecharunt | Stealth Rock/Body Press/Baneful Bunker/Infernal Parade | With Serene Grace and hell, Malignant's 50% chance, I don't think you need to setup hazards for it alongside a protect variant, so you can set up Stealth Rocks as it doesn't get that even with TMs. Infernal Parade is upshifted to Rare so that you can apply a status to steels/poisons, Hex is already a great tier TM so it might be decently reliable if you refresh for things. You have the strongest Ghost type move in the game, and with 50% here, Baneful Bunker there, Serene Grace over in the corner, I think it's fair to make a Hex variant the rare move for the mon, especially when hex is already a TM and the flavor could be you getting the toxic chain mons for a quick slap. You get Shadow Ball to begin with so you're not in poverty begging for a ghost move. |
| Galar Ponyta | Photon Geyser/Flare Blitz/Swords Dance/Magical Torque | Fighting Torque doesn't help as coverage, you get a SE hit on steels that Flare Blitz already gives, yes you don't have to deal with recoil but get walled by a couple extra ghosts. Swords Dance might be TM but like a couple of Dragon Dancers it goes really fucking hard on Galar Rapidash, already plenty fast and base 100 attack isn't bad at all when sheer force boosted with high BP moves, just remember that Sheer Force Zen Headbutts hit a little harder than Photon Geyser if you see that TM. |
Balance Team's Passive Changes Document
| Pokemon | Current Passive (What it has as of 8/1/2024) | Newly planned passive (as of 8/1/2024, note that not all of these I'm against) |
|---|---|---|
| Eternatus | Supreme Overlord | Neutralizing Gas (caveat, the boss at the end of classic won't have the passive active) |
| Gimmighoul | Contrary | Honey Gather |
| Klink | Steelworker | Steely Spirit |
| Bagon | Adaptability | Note that not all passives that were planned to be changed have an idea of what the new passive will be yet, this is a contentious passive on the balance team as it's gone back and forth between being seen as fine and needing to be changed. |
| Dwebble | Anger Shell | Rocky Payload |
| Finneon | Drizzle | Water Bubble |
| Pidgey | Gale Wings | Flare Boost |
| Galar Ponyta | Pixilate | Sheer Force |
| Sigilyph | Magician | Flare Boost |
| Relicanth | Solid Rock | Primordial Sea |
| Tirtouga | Anger Shell | Water Absorb |
| Trubbish | Toxic Debris | Neutralizing Gas (this is related to the gmax form gaining Toxic Debris as the ability instead of whatever you had at the start) |
| Munchlax | Ripen | Harvest |
| Rufflet | Gale Wings | Speed Boost |
| Manaphy | Simple | Primordial Sea |
| Kabuto | Sharpness | Tough Claws |
| Guzzlord | Innards Out | Poison Heal |
| Latias | Soul Heart | Prism Armor |
| Quaxly | Defiant | Opportunist |
| Jangmo O | Punk Rock | Dauntless Shield |
| Milcery | Misty Surge | Regenerator (another based on the GMax form changes) |
| Cherubi | Drought | Orichalcum Pulse |
| Kyogre | Rain Dish | Teravolt |
| Spritzee | Misty Surge | Fur Coat |
| Drowzee | Bad Dreams | Magician |
| Farfetch'd | Huge Power | Sniper (Leek is implemented in the main fork) |
| Skwovet | Ripen | Harvest |
| Rowlet | Unburden | Sniper (scope lens lets this work more reliably) |
| Seviper | Intimidate | Multiscale |
| Zarude | Grassy Surge | Tough Claws |
| Gossifleur | Grassy Surge | Prankster |
| Xerneas | Misty Surge | Berserk / Harvest |
| Voltorb | Electric Surge | Transistor |
| Hisui Voltorb | Electric Surge | Transistor |
| Vulpix | Solar Power | No idea currently, I'll run on the assumption they do plan to replace it and defend Solar Power Ninetales later. |
| Chewtle | Rock Head | Rocky Payload / Solid Rock |
Balance Team's Planned Egg Move Changes (as of 8/1/2024)
Link to the Google Sheets, simply put way too many fucking mons to make the table here, so you get a streamlined table, just note that while much is set in stone, there are many other things that can change this. TM Shop, importing the base egg moves, there is possibility of a 5th egg move for the mons as well but for the sake of the changes I'm running on the assumption of only 4 egg moves.