The word count is like 3000+ I am sorry
HUGE WIP FUCK I haven't proofread this so I am really sorry LMAO forgive my poor choice of words. Start a counter for how many times I use the word "interpret"
I will split up the paragraphs if anybody really gaf but I’m kind of lazy
Warning! This is not completely coherent, and my thoughts are a little all over the place. While I AM taking this seriously, I am also a 15 year old writing about cartoon characters. This is not in any way professional and does not claim to be. Be nice
Ask me questions maybe https://alterspring.org/@morty
"Personality or dynamic wise, why?”
- I find their dynamic very interesting! I have always been interested in chaotic relationships between characters (whether it be platonic or romantic) and Kyman is the extreme of that. They both feed into each other any chance they can. As I will mention more in depth, they enjoy or need the relationship with each other. Cartman enjoys the bickering, including the part where Kyle fights back. To my horribly poor memory, it is never shown that Kyle would explicitly miss Cartman. But I think it can be inferred when he feeds into the fighting, quickly getting set off by the comments Cartman makes, no matter how many times he’s said the same thing over and over. “Are you saying Kyle is asking to have hate speech thrown his way?” No! Not at all. I just personally view the arguments and names as a weird type of endearment. (At least, later on in their friendship.) A great example of this is "Ass Burgers", while working together in Cartman's restaurant, Kyle and Cartman through insults at each other. But they're doing it in an endearing sort of nickname way, at least in this episode specifically. Through my own experiences, I have grown to view arguments and name calling as a confusing type of love language. This may be a bit unhealthy, but I think that there can be a silent understanding in a relationship like Kyle and Cartman’s. I find that sometimes the only person that understands you the most is someone you hate. (“hate” being used a little loosely) This is a very interesting concept to me, and I love exploring it in these characters. In fan fiction, it is up to the individual writer to expound or alter this concept or relationship to make a completely unique storyline. Kyle and Cartman have so many differing, weird interactions with each other that they are just perfect in my mind. I relate to the 2 characters in weird ways as well, and it is oddly comforting projecting on to them. I have genuinely found myself less insecure about aspects like my nose for example, because I view Kyle as having a similar one to myself. Super weird right? But it makes me happy so why the hell not. #dgaf. I also just kind of like when my pairs bitch at each other because it’s eefoc
“But Cartman and Kyle hate each other.”
- I think this is true as well! At least, to some extent. The way I perceive their view of each other varies, I think there can be multiple interpretations. My general thought is, Cartman's "hatred" is mostly compensation. (And a bit of paranoia) Cartman is a big compensator! A great example of this is "The Poor Kid" which I just finished watching. It's honestly best shown in that season and the previous one, but in this episode Cartman finds out he is now the poorest kid in school. His first thought is that Kyle has probably found this out already, and is using it against him. He does this a lot, where he fully convinces himself that Kyle has a plan to do something against him, when he really doesn't. He is so insecure and worried that he will be made fun of, he instantly pins it on Kyle and moves to try and take advantage of the situation himself, coming forth before he believes Kyle will. Thus, he thinks he is taking control of the situation, when in reality he is being more self destructive than anything. He thinks Kyle is smart enough to figure these things out on his own, and he believes Kyle hates him as well. This is my general understanding of how Cartman views Kyle, but it still doesn't answer the question, right? Well, I think Cartman values Kyle as sort of a chaos figure. He needs Kyle to be there to argue with, and to have someone who just generally disagrees with him. In "Smug Alert" Kyle moves away. Cartman has a party celebrating him leaving, and boasts about how happy he is now that Kyle is gone. Afterwards, he has Butters over to hangout. He insults Butters, who accepts the insults and agrees without any resistance. Cartman is notably upset and tells Butters that he should fight back. He realizes he misses Kyle and rescues him later on in the episode. You might be thinking, "Well that's nice (and kind of obvious already!) for Cartman. But Kyle still hates Cartman." I can explain this too! There is no specific episode mirroring Cartman's, but it is sprinkled throughout the entire show if you look for it. Kyle and Cartman fight and argue, and overall morally disagree all the time. Kyle is usually seen as the voice of reason, or logic. Cartman needs this of course, in order to have someone who disagrees with him. Kyle is also usually the empathetic one, and in many situations, is empathetic or worried about Cartman. In one instance in “Up the Down Steroid”, he sincerely approaches Cartman and attempts to stop him from participating in a Special Education Olympics. He says that he genuinely believes Cartman will go to hell if he continues, and he doesn't want that for him. A simpler example would be “Manbearpig”, in which Kyle saves Cartman from drowning, even while he is actively drowning himself. “Jewpacabra”, Kyle takes Cartman from the cold outdoors, places a blanket over him, and takes him home, even tucking him into bed. He saves Cartman, despite his rampant antisemitism and hateful ideas in the episode, and in general. "This could easily be a show of Kyle's conscious, not particularly him caring for Cartman." Sure! I definitely agree that there are moments where it's more of a moral obligation than a direct worry or care for Cartman's well being. (Or anyone in general) In the recent special, "The End of Obesity" Kyle notices that Cartman is upset over his weight. Kyle then, throughout the entire special, does everything he can to get the medication to help Cartman with his weight. This could also just be seen Kyle being a strong believer against the way the system is run, rather than caring about Cartman in specific. However, I genuinely believe that Kyle is doing this because he is worried about his friend's health, and how it is affecting him. He looks genuinely sorry when Cartman is crying about his weight, moving to immediately comfort him and try to help. He celebrates when the doses are successfully causing Cartman to lose weight, feeling happy for him. Despite the multiple harsh challenges, and literal life threatening situations, he still wants to solve Cartman’s problem. I think this special in particular is a great show of not only Kyle's care for others, but for Cartman. It might be that in general, he feels sorry for Cartman more than anything. I believe a good portion of that is pity, but I also think that it is understanding too. I think Kyle understands why Cartman acts the way he does, his motives, and the way he feels, and I think that because of that he does not truly hate him. He has faith that Cartman can get better, and is concerned about his well being, shown in multiple episodes. (Ex: “Cartman Finds Love” “Kenny Dies” “Dead Celebrities” (lol ok maybe I’m stretching it here) ) Does Cartman sometimes ruin these moments by revealing selfish intentions? Yes. But I think that doesn’t change Kyle’s inevitable will to help Cartman do better. (And I think this can be interpreted as self sabotage but cough cough we aren’t here for a direct Cartman analysis rn ok.) I’d also like to add that there are just so many moments or episodes where the two get along as genuine friends. “Ass Burgers” is a strong one. Smaller moments can be seen in “You’re Getting Old”, where they are actually having a good time just hanging out with each other, without arguing. No matter how you feel about the ship, it doesn’t change that Kyle and Cartman don’t hate each other. It’s not an unreasonable thought though, they (mostly Cartman) do a lot of horrible things to each other right? Well, yes. This is a defense that most anti Kyman shippers use, which can be an open and shut case if you take the show in its sincerity in the most serious way possible. South Park is a show that relies on satire and crazy, comical situations in order to prove a point or an opinion by the producers. (Of course, this isn’t all episodes but I think we can agree that most of South Park is just Matt and Trey calling shit stupid.) It’s near impossible to take all of these situations, these characters, in full, and apply them to real world situations. The things that Cartman and Kyle fight about or do to each other are extreme and outlandish for the sake of doing so. I think they can serve as hyperbole, where Matt and Trey are portraying that these characters disagree so much that they’d do the most crazy and radical shit ever just to spite each other. Because of the fact that South Park is a satire, there is so much interpretation and freedom to be had with the characters' personalities and mindsets. With South Park, you kind of have to simplify everything as much as possible, and then work forward to determine the little details of the characters that are unsaid, but still shown if you look deep enough. I think that when analyzing characters with a show like South Park, you have to look at the intention rather than the actual action. Ex: Kyle saving Cartman from Snooki. Is it a completely irrational and unimaginable scenario? Yes. But the intention is still there. The intention, that Kyle would save Cartman if he were genuinely in danger. Now, do I think South Park is intentionally writing these characters in such a way? Well… a little. These details ARE added, and constant. Ex: Cartman being insecure about his mother. I just think that they are satirized to the point where you don’t really notice it or take it seriously, because it’s just seen as a joke. But the details are still affecting the character, they’re just usually drawn out and mentioned in small bits throughout the show. There is so much interpretation to be had when you are only seeing the actions of these characters, and not the reasons. There is always a reason for an action that ties back to the person’s thought process or experiences in life. Experiences always shape the way you act and think, and it’s interesting to try and apply that to fictional characters. These characters are also only kids in the show. With age comes so much change and development, and it is so interesting to imagine these characters growing up. It is also an opening for connection, as I am a teenager. I can relate to things they might going through, and project my own troubles or experiences on them. There is so much free room, there is no wrong or right way to enjoy exploring these characters. I can see multiple viewpoints, and I enjoy them all because I can point to one thing, and see where they got that idea from. I can think of endless contraries to the ideas I’ve just talked about, which is why I enjoy them so much. There is so much fun to be had!!!! These characters are so expandable, and they bring me so much joy. I can even see these characters genuinely hating each other at any point, and there can be a multitude of reasons for that, which is so cool! You can do anything you want with these characters because fiction rules!!!!! God bless
*I want to add again that I have multiple interpretations of their relationship. I thoroughly enjoy the “Cartman is an insecure asshole that can’t accept his feelings so he hates Kyle instead” trope. I think even with this concept, there is so much to expound on. I always love Post Covid stories, and there’s much to do when you combine both of these ideas. I do not only hold the viewpoint I stated above, I am always happy to see a different perspective.
*I also think that sometimes there is just a certain type of tension with enemies that can only be solved with a smooch or two. You know what I’m saying? No? Ok. Sorry.
*Sorry I SWEAR this is the last one. I wanted to add that with or without romantic intent Cartman is definitely obsessed with Kyle in some way. Whether it be a paranoid obsession or a need for power. Or a crush teehee
"How can you like Kyle/Cartman? They've done such and such, they're horrible/weird/other negative adjective."
- When I write this question, I mean it in multiple ways. I am going to actually split this question up, because I have multiple points that have multiple points and it's just easier to seperate ts.
The most obvious one being in reference to the horrible things Cartman has done, specifically or not specific to Kyle. Cartman is known for how bigoted, self centered, and douchey he is. I have a lot of feelings on this topic, and the reasons I believe he is the way he is. But cough cough. This is not a Cartman analysis.... So I'm going to just mention a few quick points in refefence to how exactly "morally ethical" or okay it is to seemingly ignore these aspects.
- General question being: "Isn't Cartman a Nazi?" This is a really sensitive topic to cover so I am only going to touch on it lightly. Is he portrayed as generally bigoted in the show? Well... yeah. I'd like to point to a specific reference that is commonly brought up when discussing Cartman in general. In "The Passion of the Jew" Cartman essentially leads a neonazi group, even dressing up as Adolf Hitler. This guy sucks right? Yeah. There is no but, BUT. There is a reason for this. Bigotry is taught, and you kind of have to remember that he's literally like 8. Does this excuse it? No. Literally never in a thousand years. But if you seriously want to take a situation like this into account when talking about his character, you have to understand the nuance. Simply: his
mom has taught him the rhetoric, (and other influences like Mel Gibson) and allowed him to spread hatespeech. His mom is a big problem when looking at his attitude. He is spoiled by his mother, constantly validated, and never disciplined. If you are going to take Eric Cartman's character seriously, this NEEDS to be acknowledged. You can grow out of a hateful mindset (And he honestly has not done anything extremely similar as of recent, proving that he can mature.) However, as I've said before, these radical and outlandish situations may need to be mostly excluded when trying to apply real life logic. You can seperate Eric Cartman from that specific scenario, because it is unrealistic and is only for comedic and shock value in the show. It is a commentary on how people will blindly follow someone without fully understanding the rhetoric they are agreeing with, even if it seems clearly problematic to literally anyone else. (If this is wrong sorry I haven't seen the episode recently!) I don't believe that it is relevant to the story, other than to be a gag. Ultimately, whether or not it is included in his character, I really don't believe it would change anything between Kyle and Cartman. It has never been mentioned by Kyle since then, and they have still gone on to be friends. I think there is also an argument to be had that there is a difference between Cartman actually being a Nazi and calling Kyle a jew because he thinks it's funny (and it upsets him). People can change and mature, and with aged up aus this is a great explanation. It's kind of up to whether or not you consider certain events to be canon to your viewpoint. South Park, the show, and the town of South Park can be completely seperated. They can also be partially seperated, it all just depends.
*I feel the need to add on to this, I know there is a lot of moral complaints when it comes to Kyman, because it's considered Nazi x Jew. I think this term is a little too serious when talking about 2 cartoon children. I believe this for multiple reasons, which I've stated above. I want to say that at the end of the day, it is just a cartoon and not everything is meant to be taken at face value. I would never want to come across as though I'm downplaying antisemitism, but South Park is a satire, and if you enjoy the show at all I don't believe it is fair to say that all Kyman fans are in support of Nazism or anything like that. I don't want to pull the "it's just fiction card" but at a certain point you need to not take it so seriously. These characters are so satirized, it is completely unfair and honestly immature to claim something like that over a fictional ship, especially if you enjoy the same show. I am just saying this to say please be kind and do not assume stuff over a fictional ship! I have not personally experienced anything rude myself but I am saying this as a precaution or defense. I would like to note that I am also always open to talk, debate, or answer any questions you have as long as they are not framed in a malicious way. If I have offended you in any way please let me know, I can be careless with my words but I promise I care! Be nice to people everybody
A second interpretation I have of this question is about many absurdist or vulgar things done by the characters. I won't write much here, but I feel the need to say that I'm not completely ignoring these things when I am talking about the characters.
- I find South Park hilarious, and I can enjoy the show seperate from my interpretation of the ship. I enjoy the characters because they're funny and interesting on the show, and I also enjoy the characters because I can enjoy them outside of the show. I could strip them of all the wacky experiences they have in the show, put them in an entirely different universe with a differnet dynamic, and they would still be so interesting to me. They would still be Kyle and Cartman to me, which is what I love so much about South Park. I can laugh and giggle at the show, feel sorry for these characters, be mad at them, etc, and then I can make my own little stories outside of that canon. There is double the things to enjoy! Going back to the original question, I kind of mentally write out those things. However, I don't think that in my perspective that they WOULDN'T commit those actions. It's kind of hard to word it, but I still somewhat view it as something they would do. I wouldn't say it's out of character for a non canon view to do something that has happened in canon, just because it seems crazy or weird. Of course, there is nuance to this. But that's my general belief. I think what happens is funny af, and I love the canon sp kids just as much as I love my divergent ones :)
I kind of forgot what else I was gonna say lol but generally I just like the characters. Like I've said, I am somewhat seperating canon and my view but I love Kyle and Cartman all the same. No matter what crazy shit they do, I love them cuz they're funny asf and they are so endearing to me. I mean this for all of the kids in South Park too, when I say "characters" I do mean all of them. I love South Park and all the characters are so dear to my heart and will always be.